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BlueYoshi97, funny words For the records girls are also my taste. I joined here weeks ago to highlight issues, ready to take time to reformulate in order to have them communicated as properly as I can. By then, I expected it to be done quickly, easy fix =) We are not talking massive efforts here: the solution to these issues would take ~15-20 minutes to setup on the server. Snapshot 3 weeks later: there has been weeks of writing asking for a 15-20 minutes job that has not got closer to start. <------ This is really the dramatic part btw! This is not a balanced situation, I'm tired of it. I'm sure you can understand. Farewell

Withdrawing my application. For details: Cheers

Error 401, thank you for checking on it! Depending on who's connected your gaming experience might range from good game to headaches. Ywa, I don't recall having refered to ban as "a solution" here. I am glad you are OK with these people openly sharing their ideas on your servers without feeling a need to moderate. "With powers comes responsibility". I thought your sense of responsibility would kick in somewhere. Should such exact behaviors have happend in forums, IRC or any other game server with admins, it would have been sanctionned <---- still not necessarly talking about ban When these players start with the racist and neo-nazi talk, it quickly escalates to insults in chat and voice comm. In this context, it is very hard to achieve teamwork and get a good game. This only happens because there is regular chaos generated by cheaters and griefers. But with Beatalex comment on top of yours, I just realized that we are not communicating since the beginning. People here are for most teenagers, behaving as such. I'm the one being too idealistic here. And this stops here for me. I am done with the writing here. All the best folks Peace

Thank you Notte for this input. It is very unclear if there is any link between your sentence and this topic. Have you posted on the right thread mate? Neo-Nazi and racism are still growing on your ZPS server guys! Some of the chaos-leader now have a steam group: the Anti-Jude-Clan - http://steamcommunity.com/groups/jlkjl It's 7 members are all regulars on your server. Acab who applied for an admin spot () is also member of this antisemit group. Top crew (Ywa & Clavus), you are so sluggish! It is very rare to witness an internet-oriented organization having a reaction time a lot worse than the large paper-based administrations, one century ago. From what I read on the forums and IRC, it seems this lazy attitude is not solely confined to ZPS. Great job though, you even manage to piss off those who volunteer to help. I don't think Acab is a bad person. He volunteered for fireman when the place burns He watched the place still burning while you asked to "wait" After a month, he is done with the waiting, and now participates in the burning

Thank you for your input Damien, Voting seems to have been already set in place on other Mr Green servers, if I understand correctly. Typically some day-to-day issues could be avoided with a voting system. What I proposed in my earlier posts in this thread is to limit the impact of a voting system, by confining it to ultra-basic functions: kick (or max 30min ban), and rtv. In all conditions voting is only one side of the coin to the solution. The other side is that we need admins! And in this model, I still agree with you Damien: top-level decisions should/will remain to the owners: what maps in mapcycle, when to update, box configuration, hlds config ... It has been pointed out at several opportunity that our top crew is busy and has not only this server to care. I can understand that, yet its the only one burning, which should be a hint of urgency here. Woudln't such voting+admin solution help out this top crew by enabling them to focus on key issues, rather than being drawn in day-to-day maintenance? I.e: kicking out a cheater that might come back after changing his SteamID? AFAIK, it is the only public ZPS server who regularly hosts players to have neither of them. As a side effect, it is holy ground for the bad population. I find it incredible that the chaos has rised so much that we now have our own neo-nazis who nominated Mr Green ZPS their base of operations. And this raise of chaos seems to happen without triggering any longer term reaction from top crew. Its degree of urgency seems to glide above the head of the ones who can make a change. Even though being busy, we (server users) know they only have to say a word to have others fix it. It's the box admins (probably Mayco) who will implement the change. What is it that is missing for the top-level to send out a decision to be executed below? How longer is the waiting going to remain? Days, weeks...? Are we closer to the end or the beginning? Regarding my patience, I can assure you that we are closer to its end than its beginning =) I am no expert in community management, but this point I am sure: there are no better ways to poison one's enthousiasm than just parking him in "wait-mode" without him knowing why or for how long. This is deplorable: enthousiasm is the energy of a community and IMO deserve to be managed. I would like to emphasis on the point that this is still not a "complaining" thread It is posted in the area "the network", which states to welcome feedbacks and propositions. The description of this forum's section is: "Complaints / suggestions about the servers or forum? Look no further!" I understand this server is on your "blind spot" since few/none of the admins plays on it. For this reason I take special time in keeping you up-to-date and am candidly pushing feedback in an developped way because English is not the motherlanguage of most of us in here. Out of basic respect, I whish -and might be dreaming awake here- to have the owners of the server (the only one with the key to some durable solution) sharing some of my concern and implication towards their own server. How crazy is that? Cheers

Thank you Mayco, I agree: no perm ban required here. A kick might even have suffice. We just need here to signify that antisemitism is NOT OK! The player with the nick "H.." was one of the drivers of this wave. He was not the only one. I hope your action has sent a signal to this group. On the topic of bans. I would like to follow-up on the "Major Horrigan" case: You will find that the people grifing and hacking on ZPS are VERY regular there. Indeed, if you make a match between: - the players who have spent the most time on your servers: http://hlstatsx.left4green.com/hlstats.php?mode=players&game=zps&sort=connection_time&sortorder=desc - the players targeted with ban: http://bans.left4green.com/index.php?p=banlist&advSearch=6&advType=where_banned You will see that they have quite a lot of time to perpetuate their cheating opr griefing before any action is taken. The ban link also clearly show that the server is abandonned since early beginning 2010: the only bans on this timeframe are "auto bans" by console. And the waiting remains. Today we celebrate our 3rd week of passivism in front of these issues. When will we address the issue at its root? Ywa when will you make a move? Apathy in this case is not an alternative to solve the issues. A player yesterday told me a joke: "Ywa is just like a civil servant in public service: very slow to act. should he jump through a window, it will take him a couple of days to hit the ground". Why invest so much effort in creating a community when we can't go the last mile to clean up the desk? Cheers

Guys, Couple of posts ago, I was speaking about the rising of a wave of racial discrimination and antisemitism on the ZPS server. It is really stepping up a notch these last days on the server. Today I made recordings. For your archive I have enclosed a demo of a player spraying a hitler portrait. There has been also various anti jewdaism talks in chat and voice comms (that I will not paste here), and the people doing it made it very openly. Their nickname clearly displayed their intentions: we had tag like [ANTI-JUDE_CLAN] or nicks like "@(AntyJude)@##" or "Baerenjude". Its up for anyone (even without being connected) to see the players list and realize it, but it happens unpunished. In your server they can do this openly because the players there have more pressant issues: mainly the griefing and the cheating. For the sociological note, it is very interresting to observe that antisemitism can appear & grow in a chaotic environment. Now let's leave the "reporting" part and focus on the "action" part. "Wait" is what I hear when asking to move things forward towards a resolution, without any timelime (even remote) to resolution. That might sound like asking a lot to head admins, and I can be patient all you want, but at some stage I'm not an animal. I need to know what is the reason or deadline for the hold up. For both the admin(s) choosing and the voting system. Voting system is something you have already implemented, with your experience this will be an easy fix to the issues I am raising since weeks! Weeks is quite a long time for an easy task that is still waiting a "go" from top level. All this time spent in the writing/reading posts, IRC chats and game griefed could have been avoided. More importantly, the situation on the server might not have escalated to racial discremniations. In addition to its offensive nature, its very hard to get teamwork with this spirit. Indirectly this grief the game! Choosing admins might be tough, but lets look at the facts together: The server is since long abandonned <- fast is good! You have people applying for admin spot You even have regular community members who are both ZPS players and active on the forum <- there has to be people here you can trust! There is definitly the potential for action! Where is the trigger? Why not go for interim while the waiting? It would definitly help to have even a bad admin present than no admins at all! Cheers player_spraying_hitler_portrait.zip

"ammo hog"? Balmung come on mate =) On survival-type missions (as opposed to the one with objectives) it's true I grab all I can see, but it's for bringing it to safespot and sharing with teammate to make it there. Really don't mean to grief ammo!

Hi guys I confirm, this player is cheating on the server as I write! I went to IRC, but the channel is lacking some admins with rights no this specific server to carry the ban task ... and this player is currently griefing 20 people's game. And we can't vote to get him out. His steam ID: STEAM_0:0:33331552 I attach the demo of obvious speedhack to this post. ChassisB, Hitman Jenkins and anyone still reading this thread. Thank you for reporting! Next time check IRC, can be a quickfix. Make sure to have a demo of the cheater AND his steam ID. To do so, open the console (see google on how to access it) and type record name_of_the_file_you_want *be the director of the demo, as a spectator* stop status <--------- displays output of all players connected with their steamID. Select the cheater's SteamID, or just copy paste the whole output on thread. Also we need volunteers to apply for admin. It happens here: http://forums.left4green.com/forum/27-admin-applications/ cheers major_horrigan.zip

Silver Dot, I had a good laugh on your "theory" =) Thank you for sharing! Although please note that Acab profile on steam registered in end May 2010. Mine is registered in October 2005. Technically the theory should go that I created a profile named acab to boost my chances. I'm sure that IP from forums, IRC and online game will highlight we can't be the same person. Besides, come on, he is half my age =) But seriously I didn't believe there was any need to boost my application: - I'm the user who is the most implicated at reporting issues on this server, in a transparent and candid way, along with hints on how to solve it - proposed my time to solve the issues at hand - mature and accepted by users in forums, and the server. Should there be a vote within the ZPS gamers, I'm convinced I would be elected to be admin! - experienced at managing servers & community I really thought this would be a no brainer. But hey, it seems I was wrong! IMO, Acab a fair candidate. He is representative from a majority playing on the server: young (under 20) eastern European gamer. I'ld estimate 60-70% of your players there match this description. Along this line, I would suggest the following users to be admin: - Maz - Arch Enemy - Merot331 - Konig I have no grounds to judge on their "admin material" composition. As players however, they are well aware of what is happening on the field and are teamwork-oriented. Their ability to speak the mother language of the majority of the players there was a great asset that I leveraged several times to moderate some aggressive teens who joined to grief. I have been relaying to the regular players there that they can come to the forums and apply there to be an admin. Their attitude was "wait and see" how my application was received, in lights of my implication. The denial of my application wasn't taken as an encouragement. As a positive note, I should highlight the following. Yesterday there was a player, "Shakhtar Fun", who used a speedhack cheat. It was extremely obvious: his speed was so fast that we couldn't see him move, it was more teleportation. After having the cheater recorded, I joined IRC and notified the people there about this cheat. Ywa joined the ZPS server and witnessed the scene. He immediatly banned the player. More importantly: players noticed that some people exist somewhere and are still enforcing admin rights on this server. Ywa didn't stay long once the ban was placed. However, having stayed there, I can happily relate that "longer term" positive effects where perceptible. Indeed some people started voicing their wonder about some other players "fair play" when spawnkilling or ghosting others. Even a regular music-mic-spammer stopped saturating the voice comm and started communicating to help out his team. This was absolutely incredible to witness such a radical 180° turn from chaos to pleasant spirit with teamwork! Again, for this orbital strike, thank you Ywa! I took the opportunity to highlight to ZPS gamers that anyone can join your IRC channel to notify about cheater. We will see if this helps at raising interrest of the ZPS players towards the larger picture that is Mr Green community. Ywa, should you decide to reconsider my admin application, my offer is still on the table to help out. Looking at the recent escalation towards racial injuries, it is also my belief that someone should be nominated quite fast. The weeks passing are a bit too long since Acab or myself raised hands to seize and solve the issues. Cheers

Hi guys, For information, yesterday afternoon your ZPS server was hosting pure hate. I have never witnessed so much hate between 15-20 players! There was a lot of insults, racial aggressions, nazi & anti judaism talks, and even spray tag of Hitler. Yes, it went quite far. As you can immagine, it's hard to get teamwork in a server that fosters hate. The server's chaos is real, and as expected it went up a notch. Of course, not all the 15-20 players where active in this hate creation, most where just screaming back defensive "shut up". It is always the same 5-7 players generating chaos and dragging others into it. These 5-7 players regularly play there and keep pushing the boundaries of "how far they can go". On a sociological level, it is very interresting to see how people behave in an area with noone or no system to enforce rules. To my knowledge, your ZPS server is the only one out there encouraging this behavior.

Sorry you took my feedbacks and proposed solutions for "complains". By applying for an admin spot, I even proposed my time and experience to get deeper involved in order to solve these issues. By the way Ywa, your statement -locking the thread of my application- is not correct () I do have reported cheaters on IRC! As mentionned there, when one of my report met noone on channel, I expressed this wasn't an optimal way to report cheating. It's also true that one time the reported cheater was succesfully banned. If I am remembering correctly, PIVO was the nickname he used at the time. But anyway, by the time any action is taken, at least a map has passed & the cheater successfully griefed everyone's game. I believe I did my fair share of reporting. Look around, any other ZPS players joining IRC to report cheating in your backyard? No, they don't drop a game to join IRC, they simply don't care and switch to another server. Some of the friends I initially met on Mr Green ZPS are now spread in other various servers. But hey, you're big chief here; what you decide is final. My intention here is not to question or change that. Your server isn't going well, you really should take action there! I understand you are busy, this doesn't mean to get directly your own hands on it, but at least nominate someone for doing it ... which is really the idea of this whole "complaining" thread =) As for me, I'll be glad to see any other person selected to be an admin and bring peace on this server in my steam-favorites, running a mod I appreciate. Peace

Hi guys, As you know, I have started this thread because I was really fed up with recurring issues on the Mr Green ZPS server. As gamers there, we all feel it's completely abandonned by the Mr Green management team, prone to regular anarchy driven by some teenagers with hax or griefing will. I wrote my initial note after months of game in deplorable conditions. I came here asking for help and pushing ideas forward to get closer to a solution. My hope is that it would trigger something with the head of this community to change the current deal there. We're here 2 weeks later, and nothing has moved an inch: no voting system, no admin nominated. Yes, lots has been written & debated about. Bottom line: no decision made, no action taken! But on the field the situation got worse: now players vacate the server and go some places else. Clearly the level of chaos and urgency I tried to feedback has either not been heard or is deliberatly ignored. If we keep up with the waiting, there is some chances that the issue will resolve by itself: players will continue leaving for other places and by snowball effect the server will end up empty. I understand that most of you here have not played this mod. Because of this fact, it is unrealistic to expect you to manage the server. So please: - delegate the "server caring" to some admins you nominate - empower us (regular users) with some basic voting system. RTV and votekick are enough Just as much as few (not to say none) admins play the ZPS, there are very few ZPS players who come here to read the forums. However, when some other ZPS players come here and read this thread they encourage me to give up on writing here, and follow the migrating flow to other servers. I hope I can reach you guys before it's too late. After I promise, I will leave you in peace =)

Thank you for your reply Mayco. I'm not too much in techics anymore, but regarding the communication between server and IRC, I was thinking about having a bot (like eggdrop) parked on your channel. It would run a TCL basic script to check the usernames playing on the server. That bot would be programmed to send a mesage when he spots a specific nick like "admin_needed" But we shouldn't loose from sight that there is a pattern of issues repating frequently on the server: - cheating - griefing - afk player - map having players leave These are issues where most players agree towards the same solution: remove the disruptive element. These issues could be avoided without admin intervention with a simple voting system. Some democratic tools, available for everyone, are required in order to fight anarchy =) No matter how numerous or good the admins, they wouldn't be able to be present or on standby at all times. Lets implement some democratic tool on the servers to sort out most of the needs, and let the remaining ones be funneled to IRC towards admins. That should improve the game experience. It would be very nice if we could agree to install such scripts on the ZPS server. I can't speak for others servers or gamemods. Basic functions would be enough: kicking (without ban) and shifting the current map to the next one in the cycle. Let's also log these scripts. See how often they are used to proove they aren't useless, monitor possible abuse and check for improvement. Please

thank you guys for your thumbs up, I appreciate!