Eguun

BlueYoshi97, funny words For the records girls are also my taste. I joined here weeks ago to highlight issues, ready to take time to reformulate in order to have them communicated as properly as I can. By then, I expected it to be done quickly, easy fix =) We are not talking massive efforts here: the solution to these issues would take ~15-20 minutes to setup on the server. Snapshot 3 weeks later: there has been weeks of writing asking for a 15-20 minutes job that has not got closer to start. <------ This is really the dramatic part btw! This is not a balanced situation, I'm tired of it. I'm sure you can understand. Farewell

Withdrawing my application. For details: Cheers

Error 401, thank you for checking on it! Depending on who's connected your gaming experience might range from good game to headaches. Ywa, I don't recall having refered to ban as "a solution" here. I am glad you are OK with these people openly sharing their ideas on your servers without feeling a need to moderate. "With powers comes responsibility". I thought your sense of responsibility would kick in somewhere. Should such exact behaviors have happend in forums, IRC or any other game server with admins, it would have been sanctionned <---- still not necessarly talking about ban When these players start with the racist and neo-nazi talk, it quickly escalates to insults in chat and voice comm. In this context, it is very hard to achieve teamwork and get a good game. This only happens because there is regular chaos generated by cheaters and griefers. But with Beatalex comment on top of yours, I just realized that we are not communicating since the beginning. People here are for most teenagers, behaving as such. I'm the one being too idealistic here. And this stops here for me. I am done with the writing here. All the best folks Peace

Thank you Notte for this input. It is very unclear if there is any link between your sentence and this topic. Have you posted on the right thread mate? Neo-Nazi and racism are still growing on your ZPS server guys! Some of the chaos-leader now have a steam group: the Anti-Jude-Clan - http://steamcommunity.com/groups/jlkjl It's 7 members are all regulars on your server. Acab who applied for an admin spot () is also member of this antisemit group. Top crew (Ywa & Clavus), you are so sluggish! It is very rare to witness an internet-oriented organization having a reaction time a lot worse than the large paper-based administrations, one century ago. From what I read on the forums and IRC, it seems this lazy attitude is not solely confined to ZPS. Great job though, you even manage to piss off those who volunteer to help. I don't think Acab is a bad person. He volunteered for fireman when the place burns He watched the place still burning while you asked to "wait" After a month, he is done with the waiting, and now participates in the burning

Thank you for your input Damien, Voting seems to have been already set in place on other Mr Green servers, if I understand correctly. Typically some day-to-day issues could be avoided with a voting system. What I proposed in my earlier posts in this thread is to limit the impact of a voting system, by confining it to ultra-basic functions: kick (or max 30min ban), and rtv. In all conditions voting is only one side of the coin to the solution. The other side is that we need admins! And in this model, I still agree with you Damien: top-level decisions should/will remain to the owners: what maps in mapcycle, when to update, box configuration, hlds config ... It has been pointed out at several opportunity that our top crew is busy and has not only this server to care. I can understand that, yet its the only one burning, which should be a hint of urgency here. Woudln't such voting+admin solution help out this top crew by enabling them to focus on key issues, rather than being drawn in day-to-day maintenance? I.e: kicking out a cheater that might come back after changing his SteamID? AFAIK, it is the only public ZPS server who regularly hosts players to have neither of them. As a side effect, it is holy ground for the bad population. I find it incredible that the chaos has rised so much that we now have our own neo-nazis who nominated Mr Green ZPS their base of operations. And this raise of chaos seems to happen without triggering any longer term reaction from top crew. Its degree of urgency seems to glide above the head of the ones who can make a change. Even though being busy, we (server users) know they only have to say a word to have others fix it. It's the box admins (probably Mayco) who will implement the change. What is it that is missing for the top-level to send out a decision to be executed below? How longer is the waiting going to remain? Days, weeks...? Are we closer to the end or the beginning? Regarding my patience, I can assure you that we are closer to its end than its beginning =) I am no expert in community management, but this point I am sure: there are no better ways to poison one's enthousiasm than just parking him in "wait-mode" without him knowing why or for how long. This is deplorable: enthousiasm is the energy of a community and IMO deserve to be managed. I would like to emphasis on the point that this is still not a "complaining" thread It is posted in the area "the network", which states to welcome feedbacks and propositions. The description of this forum's section is: "Complaints / suggestions about the servers or forum? Look no further!" I understand this server is on your "blind spot" since few/none of the admins plays on it. For this reason I take special time in keeping you up-to-date and am candidly pushing feedback in an developped way because English is not the motherlanguage of most of us in here. Out of basic respect, I whish -and might be dreaming awake here- to have the owners of the server (the only one with the key to some durable solution) sharing some of my concern and implication towards their own server. How crazy is that? Cheers

Thank you Mayco, I agree: no perm ban required here. A kick might even have suffice. We just need here to signify that antisemitism is NOT OK! The player with the nick "H.." was one of the drivers of this wave. He was not the only one. I hope your action has sent a signal to this group. On the topic of bans. I would like to follow-up on the "Major Horrigan" case: You will find that the people grifing and hacking on ZPS are VERY regular there. Indeed, if you make a match between: - the players who have spent the most time on your servers: http://hlstatsx.left4green.com/hlstats.php?mode=players&game=zps&sort=connection_time&sortorder=desc - the players targeted with ban: http://bans.left4green.com/index.php?p=banlist&advSearch=6&advType=where_banned You will see that they have quite a lot of time to perpetuate their cheating opr griefing before any action is taken. The ban link also clearly show that the server is abandonned since early beginning 2010: the only bans on this timeframe are "auto bans" by console. And the waiting remains. Today we celebrate our 3rd week of passivism in front of these issues. When will we address the issue at its root? Ywa when will you make a move? Apathy in this case is not an alternative to solve the issues. A player yesterday told me a joke: "Ywa is just like a civil servant in public service: very slow to act. should he jump through a window, it will take him a couple of days to hit the ground". Why invest so much effort in creating a community when we can't go the last mile to clean up the desk? Cheers

Guys, Couple of posts ago, I was speaking about the rising of a wave of racial discrimination and antisemitism on the ZPS server. It is really stepping up a notch these last days on the server. Today I made recordings. For your archive I have enclosed a demo of a player spraying a hitler portrait. There has been also various anti jewdaism talks in chat and voice comms (that I will not paste here), and the people doing it made it very openly. Their nickname clearly displayed their intentions: we had tag like [ANTI-JUDE_CLAN] or nicks like "@(AntyJude)@##" or "Baerenjude". Its up for anyone (even without being connected) to see the players list and realize it, but it happens unpunished. In your server they can do this openly because the players there have more pressant issues: mainly the griefing and the cheating. For the sociological note, it is very interresting to observe that antisemitism can appear & grow in a chaotic environment. Now let's leave the "reporting" part and focus on the "action" part. "Wait" is what I hear when asking to move things forward towards a resolution, without any timelime (even remote) to resolution. That might sound like asking a lot to head admins, and I can be patient all you want, but at some stage I'm not an animal. I need to know what is the reason or deadline for the hold up. For both the admin(s) choosing and the voting system. Voting system is something you have already implemented, with your experience this will be an easy fix to the issues I am raising since weeks! Weeks is quite a long time for an easy task that is still waiting a "go" from top level. All this time spent in the writing/reading posts, IRC chats and game griefed could have been avoided. More importantly, the situation on the server might not have escalated to racial discremniations. In addition to its offensive nature, its very hard to get teamwork with this spirit. Indirectly this grief the game! Choosing admins might be tough, but lets look at the facts together: The server is since long abandonned <- fast is good! You have people applying for admin spot You even have regular community members who are both ZPS players and active on the forum <- there has to be people here you can trust! There is definitly the potential for action! Where is the trigger? Why not go for interim while the waiting? It would definitly help to have even a bad admin present than no admins at all! Cheers player_spraying_hitler_portrait.zip

"ammo hog"? Balmung come on mate =) On survival-type missions (as opposed to the one with objectives) it's true I grab all I can see, but it's for bringing it to safespot and sharing with teammate to make it there. Really don't mean to grief ammo!

Hi guys I confirm, this player is cheating on the server as I write! I went to IRC, but the channel is lacking some admins with rights no this specific server to carry the ban task ... and this player is currently griefing 20 people's game. And we can't vote to get him out. His steam ID: STEAM_0:0:33331552 I attach the demo of obvious speedhack to this post. ChassisB, Hitman Jenkins and anyone still reading this thread. Thank you for reporting! Next time check IRC, can be a quickfix. Make sure to have a demo of the cheater AND his steam ID. To do so, open the console (see google on how to access it) and type record name_of_the_file_you_want *be the director of the demo, as a spectator* stop status <--------- displays output of all players connected with their steamID. Select the cheater's SteamID, or just copy paste the whole output on thread. Also we need volunteers to apply for admin. It happens here: http://forums.left4green.com/forum/27-admin-applications/ cheers major_horrigan.zip

Silver Dot, I had a good laugh on your "theory" =) Thank you for sharing! Although please note that Acab profile on steam registered in end May 2010. Mine is registered in October 2005. Technically the theory should go that I created a profile named acab to boost my chances. I'm sure that IP from forums, IRC and online game will highlight we can't be the same person. Besides, come on, he is half my age =) But seriously I didn't believe there was any need to boost my application: - I'm the user who is the most implicated at reporting issues on this server, in a transparent and candid way, along with hints on how to solve it - proposed my time to solve the issues at hand - mature and accepted by users in forums, and the server. Should there be a vote within the ZPS gamers, I'm convinced I would be elected to be admin! - experienced at managing servers & community I really thought this would be a no brainer. But hey, it seems I was wrong! IMO, Acab a fair candidate. He is representative from a majority playing on the server: young (under 20) eastern European gamer. I'ld estimate 60-70% of your players there match this description. Along this line, I would suggest the following users to be admin: - Maz - Arch Enemy - Merot331 - Konig I have no grounds to judge on their "admin material" composition. As players however, they are well aware of what is happening on the field and are teamwork-oriented. Their ability to speak the mother language of the majority of the players there was a great asset that I leveraged several times to moderate some aggressive teens who joined to grief. I have been relaying to the regular players there that they can come to the forums and apply there to be an admin. Their attitude was "wait and see" how my application was received, in lights of my implication. The denial of my application wasn't taken as an encouragement. As a positive note, I should highlight the following. Yesterday there was a player, "Shakhtar Fun", who used a speedhack cheat. It was extremely obvious: his speed was so fast that we couldn't see him move, it was more teleportation. After having the cheater recorded, I joined IRC and notified the people there about this cheat. Ywa joined the ZPS server and witnessed the scene. He immediatly banned the player. More importantly: players noticed that some people exist somewhere and are still enforcing admin rights on this server. Ywa didn't stay long once the ban was placed. However, having stayed there, I can happily relate that "longer term" positive effects where perceptible. Indeed some people started voicing their wonder about some other players "fair play" when spawnkilling or ghosting others. Even a regular music-mic-spammer stopped saturating the voice comm and started communicating to help out his team. This was absolutely incredible to witness such a radical 180° turn from chaos to pleasant spirit with teamwork! Again, for this orbital strike, thank you Ywa! I took the opportunity to highlight to ZPS gamers that anyone can join your IRC channel to notify about cheater. We will see if this helps at raising interrest of the ZPS players towards the larger picture that is Mr Green community. Ywa, should you decide to reconsider my admin application, my offer is still on the table to help out. Looking at the recent escalation towards racial injuries, it is also my belief that someone should be nominated quite fast. The weeks passing are a bit too long since Acab or myself raised hands to seize and solve the issues. Cheers

Hi guys, For information, yesterday afternoon your ZPS server was hosting pure hate. I have never witnessed so much hate between 15-20 players! There was a lot of insults, racial aggressions, nazi & anti judaism talks, and even spray tag of Hitler. Yes, it went quite far. As you can immagine, it's hard to get teamwork in a server that fosters hate. The server's chaos is real, and as expected it went up a notch. Of course, not all the 15-20 players where active in this hate creation, most where just screaming back defensive "shut up". It is always the same 5-7 players generating chaos and dragging others into it. These 5-7 players regularly play there and keep pushing the boundaries of "how far they can go". On a sociological level, it is very interresting to see how people behave in an area with noone or no system to enforce rules. To my knowledge, your ZPS server is the only one out there encouraging this behavior.

Sorry you took my feedbacks and proposed solutions for "complains". By applying for an admin spot, I even proposed my time and experience to get deeper involved in order to solve these issues. By the way Ywa, your statement -locking the thread of my application- is not correct () I do have reported cheaters on IRC! As mentionned there, when one of my report met noone on channel, I expressed this wasn't an optimal way to report cheating. It's also true that one time the reported cheater was succesfully banned. If I am remembering correctly, PIVO was the nickname he used at the time. But anyway, by the time any action is taken, at least a map has passed & the cheater successfully griefed everyone's game. I believe I did my fair share of reporting. Look around, any other ZPS players joining IRC to report cheating in your backyard? No, they don't drop a game to join IRC, they simply don't care and switch to another server. Some of the friends I initially met on Mr Green ZPS are now spread in other various servers. But hey, you're big chief here; what you decide is final. My intention here is not to question or change that. Your server isn't going well, you really should take action there! I understand you are busy, this doesn't mean to get directly your own hands on it, but at least nominate someone for doing it ... which is really the idea of this whole "complaining" thread =) As for me, I'll be glad to see any other person selected to be an admin and bring peace on this server in my steam-favorites, running a mod I appreciate. Peace

Hi guys, As you know, I have started this thread because I was really fed up with recurring issues on the Mr Green ZPS server. As gamers there, we all feel it's completely abandonned by the Mr Green management team, prone to regular anarchy driven by some teenagers with hax or griefing will. I wrote my initial note after months of game in deplorable conditions. I came here asking for help and pushing ideas forward to get closer to a solution. My hope is that it would trigger something with the head of this community to change the current deal there. We're here 2 weeks later, and nothing has moved an inch: no voting system, no admin nominated. Yes, lots has been written & debated about. Bottom line: no decision made, no action taken! But on the field the situation got worse: now players vacate the server and go some places else. Clearly the level of chaos and urgency I tried to feedback has either not been heard or is deliberatly ignored. If we keep up with the waiting, there is some chances that the issue will resolve by itself: players will continue leaving for other places and by snowball effect the server will end up empty. I understand that most of you here have not played this mod. Because of this fact, it is unrealistic to expect you to manage the server. So please: - delegate the "server caring" to some admins you nominate - empower us (regular users) with some basic voting system. RTV and votekick are enough Just as much as few (not to say none) admins play the ZPS, there are very few ZPS players who come here to read the forums. However, when some other ZPS players come here and read this thread they encourage me to give up on writing here, and follow the migrating flow to other servers. I hope I can reach you guys before it's too late. After I promise, I will leave you in peace =)

Thank you for your reply Mayco. I'm not too much in techics anymore, but regarding the communication between server and IRC, I was thinking about having a bot (like eggdrop) parked on your channel. It would run a TCL basic script to check the usernames playing on the server. That bot would be programmed to send a mesage when he spots a specific nick like "admin_needed" But we shouldn't loose from sight that there is a pattern of issues repating frequently on the server: - cheating - griefing - afk player - map having players leave These are issues where most players agree towards the same solution: remove the disruptive element. These issues could be avoided without admin intervention with a simple voting system. Some democratic tools, available for everyone, are required in order to fight anarchy =) No matter how numerous or good the admins, they wouldn't be able to be present or on standby at all times. Lets implement some democratic tool on the servers to sort out most of the needs, and let the remaining ones be funneled to IRC towards admins. That should improve the game experience. It would be very nice if we could agree to install such scripts on the ZPS server. I can't speak for others servers or gamemods. Basic functions would be enough: kicking (without ban) and shifting the current map to the next one in the cycle. Let's also log these scripts. See how often they are used to proove they aren't useless, monitor possible abuse and check for improvement. Please

thank you guys for your thumbs up, I appreciate!

Greengrashopper > thnx for your input. 100% agree with you: applying for admin was exactly the step I took after writing my last post. Application here: I fear this is just partial solution: at the end I believe we need some voting framework. Even if griefers can join back when kicked, the kicking send a strong signal that abuse has been spotted and acted upon. There is always possibility to escalate to ban ... should it be required. Though I still prefer talk people down instead of going the ban route. But lets go step by step and the kicking and rtv would be really lovely =)

Gameserver: Zombie Panic Server Age: 28 Country of origin: France Link to SteamCommunity profile: http://steamcommunity.com/id/eguun Little something about your self and why you think you're fit to be admin: This admin's application should be linked with the larger picture: persistent problems on your ZPS server. I am here pushing the ball a little further ahead, in line with my feedbacks & recommendations regarding this server: I am here applying to propose some help on your issue of not having admins on this server. As a regular player there I can concur how unpleasant it is. Teamwork and good gaming experience drives me. I have experience at managing servers and community. Finally to be fully honest, I can't promise high engagement in IRC or forum. My time is limited and I'll gladly help for the issue at hand; can't be everywhere. This is an admin's application, not one for IRC operator or forum moderator. Cheers

Guys, Ywa mislabeled this thread. This has really to do with ZPS. Not CS, TF2, CSS ... Zombie Panic Server! I read many replies, few on the topic. And I'm not even sure if the respondants are regulars of this server. Don't make the mistake of believing there is a trend rising, where gamers come here to voice their opinions. It's only me writing this much text ... and so far for no result. I don't think I would recommend this route to another fellow gamer. It is incredible on how much time you spend worrying on how many percent is required or how abuse could happen. Abuse is there already right now! Kicking has no long term consequence. Should someone abuse this, the kicked one can join back in seconds. If you want to feel comfortable, limit the amount of votekick one can initiate. Give us voting to shift current map to the next map in rotation: yesterday zpa maps emptied the server. Noone came on IRC, gamers went on other servers. Be creative, but do something! Come on! The fact that you don't even know that this ZPS server of yours is popular and that you don't get much (not to say any) complains on IRC while it is burning should be a clear sign to ACT! Can the "real admins" (with shell & server config access) take this point please?

I'ld like to emphasis that my experience -hence motivation to write here- is solely based on ZPS server. I am not commenting on potential abuses in other game mods: I haven't tried them on Mr Green community. If it is your feeling that voting will lead to more abuse than good, lets hear your suggestions. Doing nothing, because it is your belief that there might be a risk that the democratic system might be abused, is definitly not helping. Expecting your users to come begging on IRC for some law enforcement will not work, and is already not working. The majority of your players, when having their game rotten even by a single griefer, will simply go someplace else. Don't expect a high involvment from them in finding a cure for this. And the people leaving are the kind you want to keep! Meanwhile you keep the griefers who found an eden where they can crap the game of others without punishment. On his application post, Acab presented you the snapshot of how chahotic the server was. I wasn't present at that specific time, but experienced some similar situation on this same server - source: This chaos happens over and over again. Meanwhile your admins are on stanby on IRC. A logical conclusion is that the current law enforcement procedure is not working. And you cannot educate your users to disconnect from game, google "mr green", find the website, read about IRC presence, (install IRC client), join IRC, complain, expect someone to read him, and take action about this. This is at least a 20 minutes procedure. Make no mistake here! For a large majority of your gamers, this is not a path they are not following. Instead they will move away, not bookmarking your server in their list. If IRC is really so key for you guys, then why not have a system that warn admins on IRC when one player in-game changes his nick to something like "admin_needed"? If you can enforce a response time within 5-10 minutes, this will already be a plus. Should help limiting the hemorragy of fair-play players. So at the present time, what is in place to prevent grifing might look fine from your admin standpoint. Please accept my user's point of view highlighting how inefficient this is. Would it already be that smooth, I wouldn't spend so much time writing about this in lengths here. The voting scripts already exist and their setup is not that complex to implement & maintain. I sincerely hope that my time invested here in providing feedback will lead to some improvement. Let us all be clear on the fact that staying as-it-is will not help. Admins, here is your chance to shine with constructive propositions. You shared experience, thanks. Now how can we use it to better the system?

Interresting stuff here Balmung! I can't agree with the conclusion which is: "lets keep stuff like they are". The "more of the same" theory can't apply here: it is precisely because it's not working properly that we are chatting now. If you are aware of some abuse and pits to fall, lets integrate them to have a smart voting system.

Thanks Ywa. Do you really think both can't work together: admins AND voting system? You or your admins can't be there 24/7, yet your servers do run that long ... often with players connected. Consider investing in the voting system for enabling basic comfort service to run 24/7 and use your admins for tasks with more value than simply "being a cop", but instead have them bring joy & animation on your servers. As of today your admin's job is not technical: no shell or config access for them, only a couple of commands in console. Emphasing on their "community management" role would be a nice idea to pursue. That should make you raise the interrest of the admin-role and make your users happy all the time. Make sure this voting system is implemented with easy to find & use commands/syntax. You can even monitor when & by who it was used: you'll be able to see how often this is used: this will not be in vain! Additionally, that monitoring might give you precious intel on the time frames when you'll need an admin the most to be present. Damien > As a player there having my experience ruined, this is my problem! Don't make the critical mistake of thinking your users are dumb!

This was not the thread where I posted my text. It has been moved. The subject given to this thread is not representative of my initial post. Even if my initial post mentions a reported problem with one of your admin, it is on a side note mentionning IRC. The real key part of my message is about the low quality of game experience -because of grievers- in your Zombie Panic Source server. That motivated Acab to apply for admin, I jumped in to emphasis how true it is that grieving easily kills the fun in this very teamwork oriented game. I also believed users should be provided with some basic tools for voting system. Like changing a map, or kicking someone. Who is admin and what they do is not the key part, it's really about your gamers and the game experience, on the ZPS server. If anyone can change this thread with a more appropriate subject than "Problems with admins etc.", it would be great! It is extremely pleasant to see how articulated and open minded you guys are! Especially when someone of your community takes time to register & report an issue on your backgarden, and pushes it up to suggest some solutions. I must be too old for this shit! As for those who believes its dramatizing, have a look for yourself. Try connecting in the afternoon, lets say around 15H GMT+1. Your server usually has good maps and technically lag less. However, the awefull game experiences there push part of your gamers to other servers without grievers ... even if these other servers aren't that good map- & lag- wise. I am writing all this assuming that you -admins and founder of MrGreen- also believe that one's game experience on your servers is important. It's good to keep admins on standby on IRC. Wouldn't it be even better if we (users) were given tools to self-regulate some basic issues with democratic vote? Issue solved right there, on the spot! Leaving the IRC communication channel for higher issues like reporting cheaters or hardware malfunction.

Hi Green community, I solely registered to react on this topic. This note is specially dedicated to Clavus, Iwa and their selected admins. As a frequent player on your zombie panic server, I fully understand where Acab is coming from. I understand how horrible this teamwork-oriented game can become when only one or two players decide to grief. Acab, I am sorry to use your thread as a platform to bounce on the larger topic, but I am sure you'll concur on this point. Clavus, and Iwa, you have created this community and can't be at all places at once. You need admins ... and a more democratic framework in your servers' config. Let me develop this point. I am not sure selecting your admins based on how long they spent on IRC is that wise. It can be cool to pass messages there, but as long as server admins is concerned, you definitly prefer them playing on your servers ensuring other players are having a nice experience. On a side note, IRC is nice, but I'm not even sure how efficient it really is when I read that you -the 2 founders here- were'nt in sync about a major case: a claimed admin abuse towards bob the salesman. quote: Clavus: Then why is he still listed on the portal page. Ywa! Explain! Iwa: I don't know of anything.. Clavus, Iwa the time of building the community is now over: it is now at critical mass and growing. I would recommend on emphasing efforts to manage this community. Coming back to the gaming experience on your servers, it is too often rotten by teens grieving. Acab was too often victim of it. On your zombie panic server, so was I. I guess we both had the same train of thoughts: how to get rid of them? That brought us to google "mr green" and find this website. Yes, it's playing your games that made me discover this website, the forums and its IRC presence. Clavus, Iwa, how can you help? I believe you should work in 2 directions: - enable voting system inside your servers for anyone (even non admins) to start a vote to kick a griefer. 50% vote required, both team can vote for it. With an average of ~20 players connected, you can be sure that when 10 people are very OK to let someone out, he might have already caused good damage. - select admins based on their enthousiasm to provide other players with pleasant gaming experience. If you feel unsure, have some script running on your servers to enable people to vote in order to un-admin a nominated admin. Empower your users to self-moderate! Lets first get the basic straight guys. Clavus, Iwa please give it a shot! I have read your 2 sticky posts with the rules about admins applications, and I think respected all of them while passing this feedback. I wish Acab very much chance because your servers are regularly burning. It would be nice to have some firemen, even if they are not loud on IRC or on forums.