A little thought about the medic in TF2

[Ixnay]

So yeah. I was playing tf2 arena today, and I met this heavy + medic combo that played non-stop for three maps. The medic had this really annoyingly quick uber-charge, which kinda ruins aspects of the game.

My reasoning is this: If an ability originally includes the playerskills nessesary to stay alive for long enough to recharge loses its delay, then people wont have to care much about surviving. This means that they will instantly rush, uber, kill and win. There isnt much that can handle this in a public server, especially when people tend to WTJ a bit (this is speculation on my part, due to the team having this M+H combo usually being the stacked one, and always leading x to 0)

The easiest way to counter this tactic is, SURPRISE! the same tactic. Buy your medic-upgrade, never do anything else, and start your uber 3 seconds after the enemy. But this isnt ideal, is it? If an added skill makes several aspects of the game (like other classes, and especially other medics) less than what they were intended to be (read: more or less balanced) then other people will tend to go toward the same tactic. Why the hell would we want to play tf2 if we all gonna play same tactic?

The fun for me in this game was to constantly try to come up with new ways for me to survive stuff I had trouble with. I enjoyed meeting a heavy + medic combo before they got UC ready, but with this skill its impossible. Now I basically cant do anything unless I camp. Camp and wait for uber to go away or whatever. But camping is boring, lame, and is not fun for anyone else in the server.

This is also something that happened quite a bit during these few maps. The opposing team ended up huddled together near their spawn, only to be overrun by the enemy who clearly had the upper hand, and ALL thanks to 6 euros. Fucked up? This gives a whole new meaning to "buy skillz @ ebay". This is exactly what it is. You buy stuff in order to be better ingame, and not worry so much.

And for all you people who whine about crits: This is making the game less balanced than the crits.

My opinion: remove it, and instead make the uber last 5 seconds longer or something. Or make it regen ammo. Do anything, just not shorter ubercharge-wait.

[rogue]

So yeah. I was playing tf2 arena today, and I met this heavy + medic combo that played non-stop for three maps. The medic had this really annoyingly quick uber-charge, which kinda ruins aspects of the game.

My reasoning is this: If an ability originally includes the playerskills nessesary to stay alive for long enough to recharge loses its delay, then people wont have to care much about surviving. This means that they will instantly rush, uber, kill and win. There isnt much that can handle this in a public server, especially when people tend to WTJ a bit (this is speculation on my part, due to the team having this M+H combo usually being the stacked one, and always leading x to 0)

The easiest way to counter this tactic is, SURPRISE! the same tactic. Buy your medic-upgrade, never do anything else, and start your uber 3 seconds after the enemy. But this isnt ideal, is it? If an added skill makes several aspects of the game (like other classes, and especially other medics) less than what they were intended to be (read: more or less balanced) then other people will tend to go toward the same tactic. Why the hell would we want to play tf2 if we all gonna play same tactic?

The fun for me in this game was to constantly try to come up with new ways for me to survive stuff I had trouble with. I enjoyed meeting a heavy + medic combo before they got UC ready, but with this skill its impossible. Now I basically cant do anything unless I camp. Camp and wait for uber to go away or whatever. But camping is boring, lame, and is not fun for anyone else in the server.

This is also something that happened quite a bit during these few maps. The opposing team ended up huddled together near their spawn, only to be overrun by the enemy who clearly had the upper hand, and ALL thanks to 6 euros. Fucked up? This gives a whole new meaning to "buy skillz @ ebay". This is exactly what it is. You buy stuff in order to be better ingame, and not worry so much.

And for all you people who whine about crits: This is making the game less balanced than the crits.

My opinion: remove it, and instead make the uber last 5 seconds longer or something. Or make it regen ammo. Do anything, just not shorter ubercharge-wait.

We already had an discussion about this and they wont want to change it.

Edited June 19, 2010 by rogue

[Ixnay]

Guess im not playing tf2 on green when medics like them are present then.

[TheGreenGrasshopper]

Even tho this indeed makes the ubercharge a lot more powerfull (thinking about all the tf2 servers here) making it last 5 seconds longer would be even worse xD But yeah sometimes you have such combo's but there are alos times you have to kill lots of pro's in the enemy team while you have a shitty team, you can't go ban the pro's or newbies because they make you (less) powerfull.

All I'm saying is, nothing is unbeatable you just have to figure new tactics. try making the medic pop his uber right away while your team is in a safe distance.

[Notte]

lol, If you make the uber last 5 seconds longer thats gonna be way to oberpowred xD And, dude, You only get 1 % every sec extra Uber. Thats not a lot mister.

[rogue]

lol, If you make the uber last 5 seconds longer thats gonna be way to oberpowred xD And, dude, You only get 1 % every sec extra Uber. Thats not a lot mister.

Blueyoshi already said this some several times just delete the full load if you are shooting or just being afk. You are doing nothing to get your uber full. This is a thing they can remove. (if they can remove it,i dont know its a plugin)

Link to other discussion''didn't helped anything''

Edited June 19, 2010 by rogue

[Notte]

lol, If you make the uber last 5 seconds longer thats gonna be way to oberpowred xD And, dude, You only get 1 % every sec extra Uber. Thats not a lot mister.

Blueyoshi already said this some several times just delete the full load if you are shooting or just being afk. You are doing nothing to get your uber full. This is a thing they can remove. (if they can remove it,i dont know its a plugin)

''didn't helped anything''

A afk medic aint helping his team. If he get one uber every 100 sec he wont help his team a lot

[rogue]

lol, If you make the uber last 5 seconds longer thats gonna be way to oberpowred xD And, dude, You only get 1 % every sec extra Uber. Thats not a lot mister.

Blueyoshi already said this some several times just delete the full load if you are shooting or just being afk. You are doing nothing to get your uber full. This is a thing they can remove. (if they can remove it,i dont know its a plugin)

''didn't helped anything''

A afk medic aint helping his team. If he get one uber every 100 sec he wont help his team a lot

Ok in other game-modes or being afk for 30 second;-/ (so many options). And about shooting is still the same in arena. He is doing nothing to get his uber ready.

[Ywa]

tl;dr please.

[Axon]

tl;dr please.

The faster uber thing is unfair.

And it's also the case with the Dead Ringer + Cloak regen. They can just survive every hit one second after decloaking. Every. Frikkin'. Time.

Edited June 19, 2010 by Axon

[Notte]

And its harder to a dude with one a hand to play. Cant you stop crying? It dont destroy gameplay, its just make it easyer to play

[Ramzuz]

You probably remember me, since i was the Heavy back in the game

But yeah, i agree that some of the "items" are breaking the balance a bit.

Faster uber... almost instant cloak replenish, Engies regenerating metal over time. That's all i can think of.

But at one thing you're wrong, you don't have to pay for the items, since you get free GC when you play. I got my Supercharger (aka Faster Ubercharge) without paying at all. Then i decided to donate 1 euro, and bought the Invisible Man (Faster Cloak).

I still think that random crits are a bigger problem than these items, since the items are a way to encourage people to donate. Without money, there would be no servers, right?

Edited June 19, 2010 by Ramzuz

[rogue]

And its harder to a dude with one a hand to play. Cant you stop crying? It dont destroy gameplay, its just make it easyer to play

Easier to play (upgrades) = Destroying old gameplay (new gameplay is just rush in with fast uber medics and heavys. whoe what a nice gameplay)

Why you think a lot of people and clans in the past few years dont come to this server anymore. Because they miss the old gameplay without 300 man got upgrades.

I dont got such a problem with the deathringer. there are only 3 guys that can handle that thing

Edited June 19, 2010 by rogue

[Botervloot]

Medic donation + DR donation = OP game

[Axon]

And its harder to a dude with one a hand to play. Cant you stop crying? It dont destroy gameplay, its just make it easyer to play

It doesn't destroy gameplay?!

The faster uber thingy makes it virtually impossible to kill them, because they'll uber, and get another uber in, like, 25 seconds.

[Botervloot]

And its harder to a dude with one a hand to play. Cant you stop crying? It dont destroy gameplay, its just make it easyer to play

[TheGreenGrasshopper]

lol notte, why would you only play with one hand?

[Clavus]

The shop items bring advantages, that's their very definition. And it's far from destroying gameplay. Whatever happened to seeing things as a challenge? Dead ringer spies are easy to hear. If he survives, so what, he ain't helping if he keeps faking his death. The medic upgrades do make stronger heavy / medic combos, but far from impossible. Force them to uber at inconvenient moments / focus on different players first / try to kill the medic in one forceful attack. They're not ubering every 5 seconds.

[Botervloot]

The shop items bring advantages, that's their very definition. And it's far from destroying gameplay. Whatever happened to seeing things as a challenge? Dead ringer spies are easy to hear. If he survives, so what, he ain't helping if he keeps faking his death. The medic upgrades do make stronger heavy / medic combos, but far from impossible. Force them to uber at inconvenient moments / focus on different players first / try to kill the medic in one forceful attack. They're not ubering every 5 seconds.

Challenge = good

Unfair = Not good

If you want new players, you should balance it up. It will not motivate them to donate, it would rather motivate to look for a fair/normal server. You scare away people who see this as "cheating".

Also, I, myself, think it's way too hard to kill them, even though I am an experienced player. And you think noobs/newbies would do better?

Ha. I think not.

Also, if so many people complain about it, (besides the donators themselves, they HAVE the advantages) why not fix it?

Edited June 19, 2010 by Botervloot

[Ramzuz]

I don't know if this is offtopic or not, but why does the Dead Ringer regenerate cloak while cloaked, but CND/Invisibility watch only regenerate while not in use.

[MiF]

I dont see big difference in bonuses. But maybe bigger prices or only donator bonuses?

I think good guy with faster uber charge is like 1.5 good medics without bonuses, and faster cloack regenate (as said, only used by dead ringers) not so many guys using it like pro and still you should hear/see deadringers.

imo other bonuses are just fun

[Hundred2]

Only donator bonusses are stupid.

GC gives everyone the chance to get those advantages.

[Clavus]

I don't know if this is offtopic or not, but why does the Dead Ringer regenerate cloak while cloaked, but CND/Invisibility watch only regenerate while not in use.

The original cloak regen was made before the Dead Ringer appeared. It regenerates a little while cloaked for some reason.

Challenge = good

Unfair = Not good

If you want new players, you should balance it up. It will not motivate them to donate, it would rather motivate to look for a fair/normal server. You scare away people who see this as "cheating".

Also, I, myself, think it's way too hard to kill them, even though I am an experienced player. And you think noobs/newbies would do better?

Ha. I think not.

Also, if so many people complain about it, (besides the donators themselves, they HAVE the advantages) why not fix it?

And how do you suggest we 'balance it up'? We already nerfed and tweaked shop items ages ago. In my opinion, some of you blame your loss way too much on the shop items.

[TheGreenGrasshopper]

some also blame it on crits, I blame my "awesome" team

[BlueYoshi97]

You are right, ClavusElite, it gives owners 'advantage'. There are two ways to use the advantage.

You can use it as an advantage for your team and to make tactics with it. It gives faster attacks when you can be more useful with it. The Medic has his übercharge ready faster, and so when the team gets in peril because there is not much time left, there is more chance the Medic can save the day with it's saved übercharge.

You can also use it as an advantage for yourself. Alright, you are a Medic and you go to the battlefield with your homie Heavy. Uh-Oh! Sentry ahead! Okay, all we have to do is stand still here while I heal you, Heavy. Maybe you can bunny-hop around a bit to make it look less like camping. Oh, Soldier, you're on fire and have only one second left to live unless I heal you? Oh sorry, my übercharge is ready, gotta go now.

*Not much later* Nice, Heavy, Sentry is almost destroyed. Let's go back and hide behind that wall while I stand still and talk about the weather, until I'm automatically charged.

Meanwhile, the Dead Ringer Spy decides to run straight to the enemy in plain sight. "It doesn't matter if they kill me," he says. Sadly, an Engineer noticed that he faked his death and killed him again. He wants to walk away but hears that he is still there and kills him again. 4 seconds later he notices that he is still not dead. Kill! "He must be dead now", says the Engineer. Cha-Pow! Ambassador'd! Don't fuck with the Dead Ringer Spy!

--

I can see a 'tl;dr' coming so basically this just illustrates that you can use these shop items good and you can use them bad and everyone uses them bad.

Edited June 19, 2010 by BlueYoshi97