Admin Abuse (in general)

[Tim Kuipers]

This topic is not about a specific case of admin abuse as such, but about admin abuse in general.

 

What do you think constitutes admin abuse? What are the lines? When can we say an admin is abusing his privileges?

 

I wanted to create a discussion among the users and admins of this server in order to solve some friction between regular players and admins.

There have been a couple of topics in the last weeks about this subject which is a further reason for starting this topic.

 

In a recent discussion between a regular player and Matthijs1996 (an admin), Matthijs said the following:

(for the English among us, this translates as:

"There are no limits on what I can or can't do

I can worldedit away your whole base 

This would still not be abuse

The term 'admin abuse' is just retarded

Abuse doesn't exist at all" )

 

Now I think that a lot of people wouldn't agree with this point of view. 

 

What do you think constitutes admin abuse?

What do you think admins should be disallowed to do?

 

regards,

I_TK_I

[Balmung]

Mathijs does not use his admin powers to give himself an advantage over any other players in PVP. A lot of shit kicked off with Demacia yesterday, they complained  and moaned of admin abuse even though I was the one raiding them and have no admin powers on minecraft.

 

If someone doesnt win a fight that involves an admin or the faction of an admin then "admin abuse" is usually the excuse given for the non-admin side losing. I've yet to personally see any minecraft admin abusing their position, we all understand it would be counter-productive to try and deter players from playing on the server by this method,

[Tim Kuipers]

The situation you describe is exactly one of the reasons for starting this topic.

Your post implies that at least one of the things admins should be disallowed is to "give himself an advantage over any other players in PVP".

This would mean that you disagree with Matthijs1996.

 

I would gladly see more input from other people.

[Balmung]

Do not twist my words to suit your situation. Mathijs' plays the exact same way I do.

[Damien]

People need an excuse to blame other players for being less good than others. Being admin gives people another reason to blame their lack of skill on. I do see your point though in what mathijs says. You can obviously abuse your power when you give yourself advantages over other people. But im almost 100% sure that all admins on mr.green dont abuse, otherwise they would have already been spoken to about it.

[Mathijs1996]

I just wanted to proof that there are no rules but that doesn't mean I should do the stuff I listed. I wanted to point out what Balmung already said: technically there are no rules at all so the term 'admin abuse' doesn't even excist, this of course doesn't mean I can do whatever I want. At some points it gets really frustrating if people call me an abuser if everything happens legit, yesterday Balmung was raiding demacia legitly using pearls and armor I gave him but still people are flaming me for abusive behaviour which is retarded.

 

Also: How can I give myself advantages in pvp ? The only thing I can think of is spawning stuff, but I don't even have a chest and the only set of armor I own is almost broken and is just plain prot II which isn't that hard to make. If I would be flying in pvp going vanish or even using gamemode I would get your concern but that did not occure yet and will never ever occure.

[Tim Kuipers]

Do not twist my words to suit your situation. Mathijs' plays the exact same way I do.

I certainly am not. And what's my situation here? I am just trying to start a discussion topic.

 

Your post implies that at least one of the things admins should be disallowed is to "give himself an advantage over any other players in PVP".

I take it that you do agree with this statement. This statement is contrary to Matthijs' statement that abuse doesn't exist. Therefore, you disagree with Matthijs.

[Tim Kuipers]

So spawning stuff for pvp is abusive.. And flying when pvping is abusive..

[Mr. Darkness]

Your post implies that at least one of the things admins should be disallowed is to "give himself an advantage over any other players in PVP".

I take it that you do agree with this statement. This statement is contrary to Matthijs' statement that abuse doesn't exist. Therefore, you disagree with Matthijs.

Well done agreeing with yourself by quoting yourself, idiot.

 

I'd personally say that you minecraft kids should calm your balls down and suit with the admin you have. You keep saying that he spawned stuff for PVP. He didn't because it's technically impossible while pvp. If he does fly around in the sea and spam his invisibility potions, how's that abusive? He doesn't affect any PVP battles.

If he does come to your base and fly around to see it, that isn't abuse. He doesn't use his powers to make anything with it. He just flies around. Like a bird. Never seen birds?

If he does come to your base and keep spamming healing potions at you, but it doesn't affect you at all, how's that a PVP advantage?

If he just flies through the map like a bird, hows that abusing?

 

Shut the fuck up and have a nice day.

Edited April 7, 2013 by Mr. Darkness

[Clavus]

Let me make this clear. The job of an admin is to be as unobtrusive as possible. Flying around without good reason gets people on edge. Spawning stuff for others messes with the game too. As an admin you're only supposed to interfere when rules are being broken. World edit is not to be used outside of removing lava mountains or world cleanup. When monitoring, stick to the vanish and spectate powers you're granted.

 

These rules aren't solid, but break them unless you have good reason to. This is how I envision the role of admins of our server.

 

If anyone thinks someone isn't a good admin, build a case with solid proof before you come complaining.

 

 

Oh and one more thing Mathijs:

 

 

That sort of reasoning is retarded. You are granted administrative powers because I trust to do your job well. If you misuse this trust, it is 'abuse' in every sense of the word.

[Tim Kuipers]

I'd personally say that you minecraft kids should calm your balls down and suit with the admin you have. You keep saying that he spawned stuff for PVP. 

 

Please don't call me a kid, cause I am not. 

I didn't say he spawned stuff at all! 

Get your facts straight!

 

@Clavus, thank you for clearing things up!

 

But, on the topic of:

If anyone thinks someone isn't a good admin, build a case with solid proof before you come complaining.

A solid case is hard to build up. It could be quite easy to 'cover your tracks' as an admin, I recon. If you're invisible and not showing on map, there's no way to prove it's a specific player/admin as opposed to someone else, right?

The fact is that IF an admin actually is abusing his privileges, THEN it's pretty hard to detect.

The whole thing is pretty tricky.

But (hopefully) truth will prevail!

 

Cheers!

TK

[Tim Kuipers]

Well done agreeing with yourself by quoting yourself, idiot.

I was talking to Balmung about my earlier comment. I wasn't talking to myself...

[Mathijs1996]

Let me make this clear. The job of an admin is to be as unobtrusive as possible. Flying around without good reason gets people on edge. Spawning stuff for others messes with the game too. As an admin you're only supposed to interfere when rules are being broken. World edit is not to be used outside of removing lava mountains or world cleanup. When monitoring, stick to the vanish and spectate powers you're granted.

 

These rules aren't solid, but break them unless you have good reason to. This is how I envision the role of admins of our server.

 

If anyone thinks someone isn't a good admin, build a case with solid proof before you come complaining.

 

 

Oh and one more thing Mathijs:

 

 

That sort of reasoning is retarded. You are granted administrative powers because I trust to do your job well. If you misuse this trust, it is 'abuse' in every sense of the word.

 

Ye that was exactly what I said after that piece, he edited that out though.

[Guest]

.

Edited April 8, 2015 by Guest

[Mazah]

Mathijs does not use his admin powers to give himself an advantage over any other players in PVP. A lot of shit kicked off with Demacia yesterday, they complained  and moaned of admin abuse even though I was the one raiding them and have no admin powers on minecraft.

 

If someone doesnt win a fight that involves an admin or the faction of an admin then "admin abuse" is usually the excuse given for the non-admin side losing. I've yet to personally see any minecraft admin abusing their position, we all understand it would be counter-productive to try and deter players from playing on the server by this method,

 

Disaagree. Mathijs said we stole Reigns 4 beacons. Ffs it is imposible to get 4 beacons in less than 2 week. Cus reign faction is that old. Also shitloads of tnt he spammed.

[hulpje]

imo. you shouldn't summon so much items as admin for raiding purpose

Last 2 days Reign faction launched more TNT on our base then probaly all other people together in this map

So here comes a little story of what happened, I have vids but since I get a blue screen when I try to render I'll keep it with screens for now.

 

 

As far as I understand the following happened:

Friday evening Reign faction blowed up some walls in Demacia faction, I wasn't there, but as far as I know we got some beacons Reign faction accidently lost. (which is the reason for the attack)

 

Saturday morning Demacia rebuild there base, and because Reign had less power then land we decidided to overclaim them (which is a default faction mechanic and I wouldn't see a reason why we're not allowed to), granting us a lot of emerald blocks and some beacons. While mining Reign's base empty mathijs logs in and attacks us with pots, we go back to our home and about 1minute later 3 withers magically appear at our base

screenshot: http://imageshack.us/f/197/trollz.png/

After some failing attempts to kill the wither (and our base completely ruined) we simply log off and kill it later, after that we repair the base again.

 

Saturday evening Reign comes again and starts TNTing our (just rebuild) base again (so it gets destroyed for the third time in 2 days), as seen in the chat, Mathijs still being mad we claimed his base:

http://imageshack.us/f/854/troll4.png/

 

In attempt to defend our base I actually managed to kill minky, with gear impossible to get for any regular player:

http://imageshack.us/f/688/troll2ng.png/ (I cant know what the others are wearing trough). Afraid of losing the loot I and the rest of the faction members logged off.

 

While everyone was offline mathijs blew up half our landscape around our base for no reason for example:

http://imageshack.us/f/15/java2013040700532572.png/

http://imageshack.us/f/708/troll3yc.png/

 

After mathijs logged off minky helped us rebuild our base again <3

So the morale of the story is I love minky.

Edited April 7, 2013 by hulpje

[Mazah]

Hulpje, i love u <3

[awesomeo_5000]

If a regular player kills you, they are hackers. If an admin kills you, they are abusing their admin powers. It has always been that way, it always will be. 

[xtissetass]

well, mathijs1996 has clearly been using hes /gamemode 1 to get the enchanting books. what an abuser :s

[Mazah]

If a regular player kills you, they are hackers. If an admin kills you, they are abusing their admin powers. It has always been that way, it always will be.

I recommend u to look screenshots FFS.

Didn't know that killing people by admin with withers, unreal armor and shhitloads of hacked TNT is legit.

And about demolished surface - now we all know who destroying spawn areas. ( <-- ok this on is joke)

Edited April 7, 2013 by Mazah

[Mathijs1996]

imo. you shouldn't summon so much items as admin for raiding purpose

Last 2 days Reign faction launched more TNT on our base then probaly all other people together in this map 

So here comes a little story of what happened, I have vids but since I get a blue screen when I try to render I'll keep it with screens for now.

 

 

As far as I understand the following happened:

Friday evening Reign faction blowed up some walls in Demacia faction, I wasn't there, but as far as I know we got some beacons Reign faction accidently lost. (which is the reason for the attack)

 

Saturday morning Demacia rebuild there base, and because Reign had less power then land we decidided to overclaim them (which is a default faction mechanic and I wouldn't see a reason why we're not allowed to), granting us a lot of emerald blocks and some beacons. While mining Reign's base empty mathijs logs in and attacks us with pots, we go back to our home and about 1minute later 3 withers magically appear at our base

screenshot: http://imageshack.us/f/197/trollz.png/

After some failing attempts to kill the wither (and our base completely ruined) we simply log off and kill it later, after that we repair the base again.

 

Saturday evening Reign comes again and starts TNTing our (just rebuild) base again (so it gets destroyed for the third time in 2 days), as seen in the chat, Mathijs still being mad we claimed his base:

http://imageshack.us/f/854/troll4.png/

 

In attempt to defend our base I actually managed to kill minky, with gear impossible to get for any regular player:

http://imageshack.us/f/688/troll2ng.png/ (I cant know what the others are wearing trough). Afraid of losing the loot I and the rest of the faction members logged off.

 

While everyone was offline mathijs blew up half our landscape around our base for no reason for example:

http://imageshack.us/f/15/java2013040700532572.png/

http://imageshack.us/f/708/troll3yc.png/

 

After mathijs logged off minky helped us rebuild our base again <3

So the morale of the story is I love minky.

 

It wasn't that much tnt, the withers did most of the damage during the second raid and 6 witherskulls isn't THAT hard to get. Okay it takes time but me and Balmung have spent time enough running around with looting III killing creepers for a total of 3 stacks tnt devided over the 2 raids and the wither skulls. We also got some from other factions that were involved in shooting your base.

 

Those withers weren't that hard to place, with some invis pots and pearl marks from the previous raid we managed to get quickly to your base, luckily we hid our valuable chests in a chunck you didn't claim so we still had the 6 skulls (I only remember placing 2 down with Balmung). It's not that magical nor is it timetraveling.

 

It's not impossible gear to get seeing you can enchant books, seeing minky was the shittiest in pvp he got my armor which I spend on making from the beginning of the map and the rest of us was wearing regular prot II which we made in the week that our faction excisted, Minky still managed to die like an absolute moron (Moral of the story: Minky can't pvp ).

If you really want I can record all my enchants from now on so you guys don't get all suspicious. For the extra information; an admin can not put more enchantments on armor than an anvil allows you to unless the server runs a custom enchanting plugin which ours doesn't. This means that this armor set can be created by anyone on the server if you spend enough time on the server. (Took me the first week to get the set then started aditionally upgrading it when I got better books from friends and other factions who appreciated my help.)

 

It's still faction wars, so any damage to your base as a payback to the damage to our base feels good. I don't remember placing that much tnt, the most outside damage was done by the withers, I've placed the remaning 20 tnt in groups of four so 5 explosions outside your base when you all logged of on the last raid.

 

 

 

P.s.

I've been in the same state as you guys are, totally wrecked after Corby raided me when he was admin and I wasn't. I found the shit I got from him falling in my trap extremely impossible but now I realise how much time he would've spend in game. The problem with the regular players is that they don't even notice since an admin is most of the time vanished. If you would just read the minecraft section on this forum and then look at all the forums which are complaining about Corby's abusive behaviour you would either think that all mc admins are corrupt or that all minecraft players draw their conclusions to quickly. It's most likely the last case, because to be fair with you guys, how many times have you been called a hacker in mc while you weren't hacking ? And how many times were you called a hacker in any other game ? You'll quickly realise that minecraft players draw their conclusions way to quickly. And what awesomeo says is the harsh trueth, since I became admin people don't call me a hacker anymore but they just call me an abusive admin. It's funny how if I would be an admin of any other game and do the exact same thing as in minecraft nobody would call me an abuser. The same counts the other way around, a very loved amin who would suddenly be in charge of a mc server would also quickly be called an abuser while he's being the same as on his other server. With the complaint I've been getting the last few days I now realise why Corby suffered from pvp'ing and why he quitted, that's why I realise why I should stop pvp'ing and do more peacefull stuff before I get sick of playing minecraft. Don't quote me on this, I'll still be pvp'ing in some cases, but raiding other people will become very unlikely.

 

 

ALSO:

Just noticed hulpje himself has prot II thorns II armor so I don't see why it's that difficult to add a unbreaking III book

Edited April 7, 2013 by Mathijs1996

[Clavus]

So in short.

 

[Tim Kuipers]

This topic wasn't meant to be about Demacia, or any events in the recent past. Please create a new topic if you would like to discuss different matters.
 

Oh and one more thing Mathijs:
 

 
That sort of reasoning is retarded. You are granted administrative powers because I trust to do your job well. If you misuse this trust, it is 'abuse' in every sense of the word.

 

 
Ye that was exactly what I said after that piece, he edited that out though.

unedited:

(of which the additional line translates as: "Abuse is a term invented by 10 year old kids who first called me a hacker until i became admin")

Mathijs, you didn't at all say that the reasoning was retarded. Don't cover up with lies.

Edited April 7, 2013 by Tim Kuipers

[Tim Kuipers]

If a regular player kills you, they are hackers. If an admin kills you, they are abusing their admin powers. It has always been that way, it always will be. 

 

If a regular player kills you, and it was deemed an unlikely situation, one tends to think they are hackers. 

Similarly admins are thought to be abusers.

 

Of course these thoughts have not at that point been proven, but the thought itself is to be expected and not to be punished.

 

Why regular players are called hackers and admins abusers is because hackers break the explicit rules, while abusers abuse the (few) rules they have been given, though they might be said to break unwritten rules. If a person prints money he is thrown in jail, if a government produces money (out of thin air) it is frowned upon. Eventhough they do the same thing the one is a criminal and the other is some kind of evil monarch or something. 

[Mathijs1996]

This topic wasn't meant to be about Demacia, or any events in the recent past. Please create a new topic if you would like to discuss different matters.

 

Oh and one more thing Mathijs:

 

 

That sort of reasoning is retarded. You are granted administrative powers because I trust to do your job well. If you misuse this trust, it is 'abuse' in every sense of the word.

 

 

Ye that was exactly what I said after that piece, he edited that out though.

unedited:

2013-04-06_13.56.37.png

(of which the additional line translates as: "Abuse is a term invented by 10 year old kids who first called me a hacker until i became admin")

Mathijs, you didn't at all say that the reasoning was retarded. Don't cover up with lies.

Still a crap ton missing