Problems with admins etc.

[Eguun]

Hi Green community,

I solely registered to react on this topic. This note is specially dedicated to Clavus, Iwa and their selected admins.

As a frequent player on your zombie panic server, I fully understand where Acab is coming from.

I understand how horrible this teamwork-oriented game can become when only one or two players decide to grief.

Acab, I am sorry to use your thread as a platform to bounce on the larger topic, but I am sure you'll concur on this point.

Clavus, and Iwa, you have created this community and can't be at all places at once. You need admins ... and a more democratic framework in your servers' config. Let me develop this point.

I am not sure selecting your admins based on how long they spent on IRC is that wise. It can be cool to pass messages there, but as long as server admins is concerned, you definitly prefer them playing on your servers ensuring other players are having a nice experience.

On a side note, IRC is nice, but I'm not even sure how efficient it really is when I read that you -the 2 founders here- were'nt in sync about a major case: a claimed admin abuse towards bob the salesman.

quote:

Clavus: Then why is he still listed on the portal page. Ywa! Explain!

Iwa: I don't know of anything..

Clavus, Iwa the time of building the community is now over: it is now at critical mass and growing. I would recommend on emphasing efforts to manage this community.

Coming back to the gaming experience on your servers, it is too often rotten by teens grieving.

Acab was too often victim of it. On your zombie panic server, so was I.

I guess we both had the same train of thoughts: how to get rid of them?

That brought us to google "mr green" and find this website.

Yes, it's playing your games that made me discover this website, the forums and its IRC presence.

Clavus, Iwa, how can you help?

I believe you should work in 2 directions:

- enable voting system inside your servers for anyone (even non admins) to start a vote to kick a griefer. 50% vote required, both team can vote for it. With an average of ~20 players connected, you can be sure that when 10 people are very OK to let someone out, he might have already caused good damage.

- select admins based on their enthousiasm to provide other players with pleasant gaming experience. If you feel unsure, have some script running on your servers to enable people to vote in order to un-admin a nominated admin.

Empower your users to self-moderate!

Lets first get the basic straight guys. Clavus, Iwa please give it a shot!

I have read your 2 sticky posts with the rules about admins applications, and I think respected all of them while passing this feedback.

I wish Acab very much chance because your servers are regularly burning. It would be nice to have some firemen, even if they are not loud on IRC or on forums.

[QTesla]

Not Iwa, It's Ywa.

[Clavus]

You don't have to dramatise the situation. We'll look at the admin applications when necessary.

[BlueYoshi97]

When you don't care about what others think, then right now my 7-year old brother has more chance to become admin than you.

[The Lazy Peon]

just

You can't just tell these guys what to do: im sure they are more experianced than yourself on the matter.

Edited June 7, 2010 by The Lazy Peon

[Ywa]

You're wrong about IRC. It's obvious admins can't be 24/7 ingame. Although they can be on IRC even if there're doing something else. In that case they can assist you if you report a cheater in IRC and ban them.

[Danni]

simply just :o

You're not writing on some political forum.

[BlueYoshi97]

This topic is exactly like the Admin Thing topic now. I quote:

My perfect admin (lol):

- Active on the server he's admin on (atleast 1/2 hours per day).

- When not playing on the server online at IRC to assist in case of an emergency.

- Checks and posts on the forums several times per day (both server related and off-topic talk).

[pointpoint]

What the fuck here ???

Admin ABROOSE ?...again ?? xD

I'm joking of course , I think admins was elected for good reasons , and their nomination by Ywa and Clavy was just and fair-play. They take the time to knowing admin and their motivations , the time passed on the game(s) and forum.

Look that , Admins came from many country and it's a good point for me cause I'm french , and as you see my message , I'm not strong in english ^^ .Nuggy is French and help me sometimes , Chainsaw is German (poor guy =P ) and he's great , nuggy too , all of them ( haxmin of course ^^ (no no I don't suck , it's true )).

I said just this selected Admins was Good , fair play , and he help or slap when it's necessary.

P.S: Yr message is good , and you has good ideas , good luck for the rest .And , I hope you understand my semi "language" :3

P.S 2: Peony , I like your GIF xD

[Albzi]

What?

Anyway, I think what you're saying is understandable, and I see where you're coming from, but I just want to let you know in the nicest way possible.

You're wrong.

Hopefully this has helped.

[Eguun]

This was not the thread where I posted my text. It has been moved.

The subject given to this thread is not representative of my initial post.

Even if my initial post mentions a reported problem with one of your admin, it is on a side note mentionning IRC.

The real key part of my message is about the low quality of game experience -because of grievers- in your Zombie Panic Source server.

That motivated Acab to apply for admin, I jumped in to emphasis how true it is that grieving easily kills the fun in this very teamwork oriented game.

I also believed users should be provided with some basic tools for voting system. Like changing a map, or kicking someone.

Who is admin and what they do is not the key part, it's really about your gamers and the game experience, on the ZPS server.

If anyone can change this thread with a more appropriate subject than "Problems with admins etc.", it would be great!

It is extremely pleasant to see how articulated and open minded you guys are!

Especially when someone of your community takes time to register & report an issue on your backgarden, and pushes it up to suggest some solutions.

I must be too old for this shit!

As for those who believes its dramatizing, have a look for yourself. Try connecting in the afternoon, lets say around 15H GMT+1.

Your server usually has good maps and technically lag less. However, the awefull game experiences there push part of your gamers to other servers without grievers ... even if these other servers aren't that good map- & lag- wise.

I am writing all this assuming that you -admins and founder of MrGreen- also believe that one's game experience on your servers is important.

It's good to keep admins on standby on IRC. Wouldn't it be even better if we (users) were given tools to self-regulate some basic issues with democratic vote?

Issue solved right there, on the spot! Leaving the IRC communication channel for higher issues like reporting cheaters or hardware malfunction.

[Ywa]

I'll see if I can add basic vote commands. But it's only for the time being (until we have a good admin). Also, if someone ruins the game intentionally you can just go on IRC and ask for admin assistance for now.

Anyways, thank you for making these suggestions. We'll see what we can do with it.

[Damien]

Self-control would only cause chaos, imagine the world being ruled by majority votes. :S

Its nice to see somebody is concerned about players that ruin the game, but that isnt really your problem.

[Eguun]

Thanks Ywa.

Do you really think both can't work together: admins AND voting system?

You or your admins can't be there 24/7, yet your servers do run that long ... often with players connected.

Consider investing in the voting system for enabling basic comfort service to run 24/7 and use your admins for tasks with more value than simply "being a cop", but instead have them bring joy & animation on your servers.

As of today your admin's job is not technical: no shell or config access for them, only a couple of commands in console. Emphasing on their "community management" role would be a nice idea to pursue.

That should make you raise the interrest of the admin-role and make your users happy all the time.

Make sure this voting system is implemented with easy to find & use commands/syntax.

You can even monitor when & by who it was used: you'll be able to see how often this is used: this will not be in vain!

Additionally, that monitoring might give you precious intel on the time frames when you'll need an admin the most to be present.

Damien > As a player there having my experience ruined, this is my problem!

Don't make the critical mistake of thinking your users are dumb!

Edited June 7, 2010 by Eguun

[Balmung]

I know I'm not talking about ZPS here, but I remember when a Voting system for maps was put in, a weakness created was that the majority would always overrule and you'd get stuck in a cycle of 3 maps, the same applies to things like a vote kick, Players Who think they're ub3rl33t go andd initiate votekicks, usually anonymous against players they don't like, and although votekicks can be used to do good, alot of abuse can also come from it. Callnig an Admin is a more efficient way.

[pointpoint]

+1 for Balmy

[Eguun]

Interresting stuff here Balmung!

I can't agree with the conclusion which is: "lets keep stuff like they are".

The "more of the same" theory can't apply here: it is precisely because it's not working properly that we are chatting now.

If you are aware of some abuse and pits to fall, lets integrate them to have a smart voting system.

[Damien]

I dont agree with your abuse theory, because thats only a small fraction of the people. If you put in a majority vote, i believe it wont be abused. Maybe a voting system based on score, because people that want to abuse it are mostly noobs.

[Mr. Darkness]

+1 to Balmung

Votekicks can cause many probnlem.

[Eguun]

I'ld like to emphasis that my experience -hence motivation to write here- is solely based on ZPS server. I am not commenting on potential abuses in other game mods: I haven't tried them on Mr Green community.

If it is your feeling that voting will lead to more abuse than good, lets hear your suggestions.

Doing nothing, because it is your belief that there might be a risk that the democratic system might be abused, is definitly not helping.

Expecting your users to come begging on IRC for some law enforcement will not work, and is already not working.

The majority of your players, when having their game rotten even by a single griefer, will simply go someplace else. Don't expect a high involvment from them in finding a cure for this.

And the people leaving are the kind you want to keep! Meanwhile you keep the griefers who found an eden where they can crap the game of others without punishment.

On his application post, Acab presented you the snapshot of how chahotic the server was. I wasn't present at that specific time, but experienced some similar situation on this same server -

source:

This chaos happens over and over again.

Meanwhile your admins are on stanby on IRC.

A logical conclusion is that the current law enforcement procedure is not working. And you cannot educate your users to disconnect from game, google "mr green", find the website, read about IRC presence, (install IRC client), join IRC, complain, expect someone to read him, and take action about this.

This is at least a 20 minutes procedure.

Make no mistake here! For a large majority of your gamers, this is not a path they are not following.

Instead they will move away, not bookmarking your server in their list.

If IRC is really so key for you guys, then why not have a system that warn admins on IRC when one player in-game changes his nick to something like "admin_needed"? If you can enforce a response time within 5-10 minutes, this will already be a plus. Should help limiting the hemorragy of fair-play players.

So at the present time, what is in place to prevent grifing might look fine from your admin standpoint. Please accept my user's point of view highlighting how inefficient this is.

Would it already be that smooth, I wouldn't spend so much time writing about this in lengths here.

The voting scripts already exist and their setup is not that complex to implement & maintain. I sincerely hope that my time invested here in providing feedback will lead to some improvement.

Let us all be clear on the fact that staying as-it-is will not help.

Admins, here is your chance to shine with constructive propositions. You shared experience, thanks. Now how can we use it to better the system?

[Balmung]

I see where your coming from Eguun, but personally I think the best option is to find an Admin for the server It's be nice to see more of the ZPS players get involved here, I don't think we have that many who play ZPS on a regular basis.

[Darkstar]

If this voting system was introduced on the TF2 servers, I can think of certain people (totally not Mr.Layer) who might use it to votekick all people using the FaN and DH since he hates them so.

However, due to the FaN being incredibly OP for arena I think that people would end up being votekicked.

[acab]

I'ld like to emphasis that my experience -hence motivation to write here- is solely based on ZPS server. I am not commenting on potential abuses in other game mods: I haven't tried them on Mr Green community.

If it is your feeling that voting will lead to more abuse than good, lets hear your suggestions.

Doing nothing, because it is your belief that there might be a risk that the democratic system might be abused, is definitly not helping.

Expecting your users to come begging on IRC for some law enforcement will not work, and is already not working.

The majority of your players, when having their game rotten even by a single griefer, will simply go someplace else. Don't expect a high involvment from them in finding a cure for this.

And the people leaving are the kind you want to keep! Meanwhile you keep the griefers who found an eden where they can crap the game of others without punishment.

On his application post, Acab presented you the snapshot of how chahotic the server was. I wasn't present at that specific time, but experienced some similar situation on this same server -

source:

This chaos happens over and over again.

Meanwhile your admins are on stanby on IRC.

A logical conclusion is that the current law enforcement procedure is not working. And you cannot educate your users to disconnect from game, google "mr green", find the website, read about IRC presence, (install IRC client), join IRC, complain, expect someone to read him, and take action about this.

This is at least a 20 minutes procedure.

Make no mistake here! For a large majority of your gamers, this is not a path they are not following.

Instead they will move away, not bookmarking your server in their list.

If IRC is really so key for you guys, then why not have a system that warn admins on IRC when one player in-game changes his nick to something like "admin_needed"? If you can enforce a response time within 5-10 minutes, this will already be a plus. Should help limiting the hemorragy of fair-play players.

So at the present time, what is in place to prevent grifing might look fine from your admin standpoint. Please accept my user's point of view highlighting how inefficient this is.

Would it already be that smooth, I wouldn't spend so much time writing about this in lengths here.

The voting scripts already exist and their setup is not that complex to implement & maintain. I sincerely hope that my time invested here in providing feedback will lead to some improvement.

Let us all be clear on the fact that staying as-it-is will not help.

Admins, here is your chance to shine with constructive propositions. You shared experience, thanks. Now how can we use it to better the system?

Even a normal person responded.Thanks for the feedback on my candidacy

[BlueYoshi97]

I'ld like to emphasis that my experience -hence motivation to write here- is solely based on ZPS server. I am not commenting on potential abuses in other game mods: I haven't tried them on Mr Green community.

If it is your feeling that voting will lead to more abuse than good, lets hear your suggestions.

Doing nothing, because it is your belief that there might be a risk that the democratic system might be abused, is definitly not helping.

Expecting your users to come begging on IRC for some law enforcement will not work, and is already not working.

The majority of your players, when having their game rotten even by a single griefer, will simply go someplace else. Don't expect a high involvment from them in finding a cure for this.

And the people leaving are the kind you want to keep! Meanwhile you keep the griefers who found an eden where they can crap the game of others without punishment.

On his application post, Acab presented you the snapshot of how chahotic the server was. I wasn't present at that specific time, but experienced some similar situation on this same server -

source:

This chaos happens over and over again.

Meanwhile your admins are on stanby on IRC.

A logical conclusion is that the current law enforcement procedure is not working. And you cannot educate your users to disconnect from game, google "mr green", find the website, read about IRC presence, (install IRC client), join IRC, complain, expect someone to read him, and take action about this.

This is at least a 20 minutes procedure.

Make no mistake here! For a large majority of your gamers, this is not a path they are not following.

Instead they will move away, not bookmarking your server in their list.

If IRC is really so key for you guys, then why not have a system that warn admins on IRC when one player in-game changes his nick to something like "admin_needed"? If you can enforce a response time within 5-10 minutes, this will already be a plus. Should help limiting the hemorragy of fair-play players.

So at the present time, what is in place to prevent grifing might look fine from your admin standpoint. Please accept my user's point of view highlighting how inefficient this is.

Would it already be that smooth, I wouldn't spend so much time writing about this in lengths here.

The voting scripts already exist and their setup is not that complex to implement & maintain. I sincerely hope that my time invested here in providing feedback will lead to some improvement.

Let us all be clear on the fact that staying as-it-is will not help.

Admins, here is your chance to shine with constructive propositions. You shared experience, thanks. Now how can we use it to better the system?

Even a normal person responded.Thanks for the feedback on my candidacy

If I cheer for you, will that make me a normal person as well?

[TheGreenGrasshopper]

lots of walls of text.

There are few or even no admin applications for ZPS I don't know why. Only Ywa, Clavus Mayco and that Bob guy are admins on Mr. Green ZPS maybe because only a few select people know about the server or that they can apply here.

@ vote-kicking:

I remember a group that kept vote kicking the admins from their own server lol.