Problems with admins etc.

[Mr. Darkness]

lots of walls of text.

There are few or even no admin applications for ZPS I don't know why. Only Ywa, Clavus Mayco and that Bob guy are admins on Mr. Green ZPS maybe because only a few select people know about the server or that they can apply here.

@ vote-kicking:

I remember a group that kept vote kicking the admins from their own server lol.

Agreed about that mate.

Edited June 9, 2010 by Mr.Darkness

[Corby]

Voting system of 50% is a slender majority. You should be aiming for something more like 75-80% atleast. Any less and a team could kick someone just because he might be owning their team. Voting systems get abused and people that don't deserve to get kicked get kicked. An admin is the way forward not some BS vote system.

[Nobana]

Voting system of 50% is a slender majority. You should be aiming for something more like 75-80% atleast. Any less and a team could kick someone just because he might be owning their team. Voting systems get abused and people that don't deserve to get kicked get kicked. An admin is the way forward not some BS vote system.

Agreed. In CSS servers, every five minutes, someone is trying to voteban/-kick someone just because he killed him once.

[Eguun]

Guys,

Ywa mislabeled this thread.

This has really to do with ZPS. Not CS, TF2, CSS ...

Zombie Panic Server!

I read many replies, few on the topic. And I'm not even sure if the respondants are regulars of this server.

Don't make the mistake of believing there is a trend rising, where gamers come here to voice their opinions. It's only me writing this much text ... and so far for no result.

I don't think I would recommend this route to another fellow gamer.

It is incredible on how much time you spend worrying on how many percent is required or how abuse could happen.

Abuse is there already right now!

Kicking has no long term consequence. Should someone abuse this, the kicked one can join back in seconds.

If you want to feel comfortable, limit the amount of votekick one can initiate.

Give us voting to shift current map to the next map in rotation: yesterday zpa maps emptied the server. Noone came on IRC, gamers went on other servers.

Be creative, but do something! Come on!

The fact that you don't even know that this ZPS server of yours is popular and that you don't get much (not to say any) complains on IRC while it is burning should be a clear sign to ACT!

Can the "real admins" (with shell & server config access) take this point please?

[Nobana]

Is it possible to add only votekick and rtv? Voteban would only cause bad.

[TheGreenGrasshopper]

Eguun as I said there are the the 2 owners, 1 global admin and 1 more admin that control the server. We can add Votekick and rtv but that doesn't help against the real griefers that keep coming back. I'd suggest that you and anyone you seem fit try to apply for admin on the zps server. Not only will it solve your problem for a big part, but you will also be able to control it yourself if the task is still being done.

[Eguun]

Greengrashopper > thnx for your input. 100% agree with you: applying for admin was exactly the step I took after writing my last post.

Application here:

I fear this is just partial solution: at the end I believe we need some voting framework. Even if griefers can join back when kicked, the kicking send a strong signal that abuse has been spotted and acted upon.

There is always possibility to escalate to ban ... should it be required. Though I still prefer talk people down instead of going the ban route.

But lets go step by step and the kicking and rtv would be really lovely =)

[Mayco]

The current problem is that IRC no longer has server echos (just MTA). This allowed admins (and everyone else interested) to read the server chat.

Due to technical problems, these echos no longer work (correctly). These echos were very useful, because most admins can't be online (or in-game) 24/7 because they have a job or school.

The only solution is recruiting more admins, but this is up to the topcrew.

[BlueYoshi97]

In my opinion, I think admins should be available on Steam as well, at least as long as the IRC echoes don't work.

[Eguun]

Thank you for your reply Mayco.

I'm not too much in techics anymore, but regarding the communication between server and IRC, I was thinking about having a bot (like eggdrop) parked on your channel. It would run a TCL basic script to check the usernames playing on the server.

That bot would be programmed to send a mesage when he spots a specific nick like "admin_needed"

But we shouldn't loose from sight that there is a pattern of issues repating frequently on the server:

- cheating

- griefing

- afk player

- map having players leave

These are issues where most players agree towards the same solution: remove the disruptive element.

These issues could be avoided without admin intervention with a simple voting system.

Some democratic tools, available for everyone, are required in order to fight anarchy =)

No matter how numerous or good the admins, they wouldn't be able to be present or on standby at all times.

Lets implement some democratic tool on the servers to sort out most of the needs, and let the remaining ones be funneled to IRC towards admins. That should improve the game experience.

It would be very nice if we could agree to install such scripts on the ZPS server. I can't speak for others servers or gamemods.

Basic functions would be enough: kicking (without ban) and shifting the current map to the next one in the cycle.

Let's also log these scripts. See how often they are used to proove they aren't useless, monitor possible abuse and check for improvement.

Please

[Eguun]

Hi guys,

As you know, I have started this thread because I was really fed up with recurring issues on the Mr Green ZPS server.

As gamers there, we all feel it's completely abandonned by the Mr Green management team, prone to regular anarchy driven by some teenagers with hax or griefing will.

I wrote my initial note after months of game in deplorable conditions. I came here asking for help and pushing ideas forward to get closer to a solution. My hope is that it would trigger something with the head of this community to change the current deal there.

We're here 2 weeks later, and nothing has moved an inch: no voting system, no admin nominated.

Yes, lots has been written & debated about. Bottom line: no decision made, no action taken!

But on the field the situation got worse: now players vacate the server and go some places else.

Clearly the level of chaos and urgency I tried to feedback has either not been heard or is deliberatly ignored.

If we keep up with the waiting, there is some chances that the issue will resolve by itself: players will continue leaving for other places and by snowball effect the server will end up empty.

I understand that most of you here have not played this mod. Because of this fact, it is unrealistic to expect you to manage the server.

So please:

- delegate the "server caring" to some admins you nominate

- empower us (regular users) with some basic voting system. RTV and votekick are enough

Just as much as few (not to say none) admins play the ZPS, there are very few ZPS players who come here to read the forums.

However, when some other ZPS players come here and read this thread they encourage me to give up on writing here, and follow the migrating flow to other servers.

I hope I can reach you guys before it's too late. After I promise, I will leave you in peace =)

[BlueYoshi97]

I hope I can reach you guys before it's too late. After I promise, I will leave you in peace =)

Thou must stay!

So many people quit, at least from TF2 and I don't know anything about ZPS.

Maybe the topcrew should try to listen to the players, even when they have a different opinion than them, when the results are that everybody ragequits.

On the other side, the players know how to make problems worse than they are, but when the majority of the players has a problem with something, I hope the players and admins will come to ideas to make it okay, it is sad to see everybody leaving.

This is just a suggestion, people, since I can't say anything about ZPS.

[Ywa]

We're here 2 weeks later, and nothing has moved an inch: no voting system, no admin nominated.

We got more things to do you know. It's not all just about ZPS and your admin application (which will be declined anyways since you keep complaining all the time).

[Eguun]

Sorry you took my feedbacks and proposed solutions for "complains".

By applying for an admin spot, I even proposed my time and experience to get deeper involved in order to solve these issues.

By the way Ywa, your statement -locking the thread of my application- is not correct ()

I do have reported cheaters on IRC!

As mentionned there, when one of my report met noone on channel, I expressed this wasn't an optimal way to report cheating.

It's also true that one time the reported cheater was succesfully banned. If I am remembering correctly, PIVO was the nickname he used at the time.

But anyway, by the time any action is taken, at least a map has passed & the cheater successfully griefed everyone's game.

I believe I did my fair share of reporting.

Look around, any other ZPS players joining IRC to report cheating in your backyard? No, they don't drop a game to join IRC, they simply don't care and switch to another server.

Some of the friends I initially met on Mr Green ZPS are now spread in other various servers.

But hey, you're big chief here; what you decide is final. My intention here is not to question or change that.

Your server isn't going well, you really should take action there!

I understand you are busy, this doesn't mean to get directly your own hands on it, but at least nominate someone for doing it ... which is really the idea of this whole "complaining" thread =)

As for me, I'll be glad to see any other person selected to be an admin and bring peace on this server in my steam-favorites, running a mod I appreciate.

Peace

[Eguun]

Hi guys,

For information, yesterday afternoon your ZPS server was hosting pure hate.

I have never witnessed so much hate between 15-20 players! There was a lot of insults, racial aggressions, nazi & anti judaism talks, and even spray tag of Hitler. Yes, it went quite far.

As you can immagine, it's hard to get teamwork in a server that fosters hate.

The server's chaos is real, and as expected it went up a notch.

Of course, not all the 15-20 players where active in this hate creation, most where just screaming back defensive "shut up". It is always the same 5-7 players generating chaos and dragging others into it. These 5-7 players regularly play there and keep pushing the boundaries of "how far they can go".

On a sociological level, it is very interresting to see how people behave in an area with noone or no system to enforce rules.

To my knowledge, your ZPS server is the only one out there encouraging this behavior.

[Nobana]

I know its not up to me to decide, put we really need admins there. ASAP.

[Silver Dot]

I never really played ZP:S that much, I didn't really like it. But what this guy is saying is possibly true, I can picture a bunch of griefers upsetting the local populace of players.

I don't really know of any 'admin roster' except that one on the wiki, and I don't really see any admins there..

Also, he's right about the !vote things. We put it on Zombie Survival ONLY, for some reason, when IW and the other servers don't have it (Not so sure about TF2), ZPS is a game known to be griefed, so I vote that you add the !vote system there, if possible.

There is a theory that ACAB created a new account, Eguun, and used google translate and posted this thread to better his chances, it's just a theory but it's possible.

Edited June 22, 2010 by Silver Dot

[Eguun]

Silver Dot, I had a good laugh on your "theory" =)

Thank you for sharing!

Although please note that Acab profile on steam registered in end May 2010. Mine is registered in October 2005.

Technically the theory should go that I created a profile named acab to boost my chances.

I'm sure that IP from forums, IRC and online game will highlight we can't be the same person.

Besides, come on, he is half my age =)

But seriously I didn't believe there was any need to boost my application:

- I'm the user who is the most implicated at reporting issues on this server, in a transparent and candid way, along with hints on how to solve it

- proposed my time to solve the issues at hand

- mature and accepted by users in forums, and the server. Should there be a vote within the ZPS gamers, I'm convinced I would be elected to be admin!

- experienced at managing servers & community

I really thought this would be a no brainer.

But hey, it seems I was wrong!

IMO, Acab a fair candidate. He is representative from a majority playing on the server: young (under 20) eastern European gamer. I'ld estimate 60-70% of your players there match this description.

Along this line, I would suggest the following users to be admin:

- Maz

- Arch Enemy

- Merot331

- Konig

I have no grounds to judge on their "admin material" composition. As players however, they are well aware of what is happening on the field and are teamwork-oriented.

Their ability to speak the mother language of the majority of the players there was a great asset that I leveraged several times to moderate some aggressive teens who joined to grief.

I have been relaying to the regular players there that they can come to the forums and apply there to be an admin.

Their attitude was "wait and see" how my application was received, in lights of my implication.

The denial of my application wasn't taken as an encouragement.

As a positive note, I should highlight the following.

Yesterday there was a player, "Shakhtar Fun", who used a speedhack cheat. It was extremely obvious: his speed was so fast that we couldn't see him move, it was more teleportation.

After having the cheater recorded, I joined IRC and notified the people there about this cheat.

Ywa joined the ZPS server and witnessed the scene. He immediatly banned the player.

More importantly: players noticed that some people exist somewhere and are still enforcing admin rights on this server.

Ywa didn't stay long once the ban was placed. However, having stayed there, I can happily relate that "longer term" positive effects where perceptible. Indeed some people started voicing their wonder about some other players "fair play" when spawnkilling or ghosting others.

Even a regular music-mic-spammer stopped saturating the voice comm and started communicating to help out his team.

This was absolutely incredible to witness such a radical 180° turn from chaos to pleasant spirit with teamwork!

Again, for this orbital strike, thank you Ywa!

I took the opportunity to highlight to ZPS gamers that anyone can join your IRC channel to notify about cheater.

We will see if this helps at raising interrest of the ZPS players towards the larger picture that is Mr Green community.

Ywa, should you decide to reconsider my admin application, my offer is still on the table to help out.

Looking at the recent escalation towards racial injuries, it is also my belief that someone should be nominated quite fast.

The weeks passing are a bit too long since Acab or myself raised hands to seize and solve the issues.

Cheers

[Balmung]

I confirm that they're different people, They talk to eachother over mic in ZPS

However Eguun, I remember you being one of those ammo hogs. Not a nice way to behave/play

[Nobana]

Along this line, I would suggest the following users to be admin:

- Maz

I think I "know" that guy. He got this awesome russian accent which makes him sound fucking cool like mafia. I mean, if its the same guy.

[Eguun]

"ammo hog"? Balmung come on mate =)

On survival-type missions (as opposed to the one with objectives) it's true I grab all I can see, but it's for bringing it to safespot and sharing with teammate to make it there.

Really don't mean to grief ammo!

[Eguun]

Guys,

Couple of posts ago, I was speaking about the rising of a wave of racial discrimination and antisemitism on the ZPS server.

It is really stepping up a notch these last days on the server. Today I made recordings.

For your archive I have enclosed a demo of a player spraying a hitler portrait.

There has been also various anti jewdaism talks in chat and voice comms (that I will not paste here), and the people doing it made it very openly. Their nickname clearly displayed their intentions: we had tag like [ANTI-JUDE_CLAN] or nicks like "@(AntyJude)@##" or "Baerenjude".

Its up for anyone (even without being connected) to see the players list and realize it, but it happens unpunished.

In your server they can do this openly because the players there have more pressant issues: mainly the griefing and the cheating.

For the sociological note, it is very interresting to observe that antisemitism can appear & grow in a chaotic environment.

Now let's leave the "reporting" part and focus on the "action" part.

"Wait" is what I hear when asking to move things forward towards a resolution, without any timelime (even remote) to resolution.

That might sound like asking a lot to head admins, and I can be patient all you want, but at some stage I'm not an animal.

I need to know what is the reason or deadline for the hold up.

For both the admin(s) choosing and the voting system.

Voting system is something you have already implemented, with your experience this will be an easy fix to the issues I am raising since weeks! Weeks is quite a long time for an easy task that is still waiting a "go" from top level.

All this time spent in the writing/reading posts, IRC chats and game griefed could have been avoided.

More importantly, the situation on the server might not have escalated to racial discremniations.

In addition to its offensive nature, its very hard to get teamwork with this spirit. Indirectly this grief the game!

Choosing admins might be tough, but lets look at the facts together:

The server is since long abandonned <- fast is good!

You have people applying for admin spot

You even have regular community members who are both ZPS players and active on the forum <- there has to be people here you can trust!

There is definitly the potential for action! Where is the trigger?

Why not go for interim while the waiting?

It would definitly help to have even a bad admin present than no admins at all!

Cheers

player_spraying_hitler_portrait.zip

[Mayco]

I have banned "H.." (the guy talking about Hitler and stuff) for 2 weeks. I assume he sees this as a warning, because if he doesn't stop acting racist it'll result in a permanent ban.

[Eguun]

Thank you Mayco,

I agree: no perm ban required here. A kick might even have suffice.

We just need here to signify that antisemitism is NOT OK!

The player with the nick "H.." was one of the drivers of this wave. He was not the only one.

I hope your action has sent a signal to this group.

On the topic of bans. I would like to follow-up on the "Major Horrigan" case:

You will find that the people grifing and hacking on ZPS are VERY regular there.

Indeed, if you make a match between:

- the players who have spent the most time on your servers: http://hlstatsx.left4green.com/hlstats.php?mode=players&game=zps&sort=connection_time&sortorder=desc

- the players targeted with ban: http://bans.left4green.com/index.php?p=banlist&advSearch=6&advType=where_banned

You will see that they have quite a lot of time to perpetuate their cheating opr griefing before any action is taken.

The ban link also clearly show that the server is abandonned since early beginning 2010: the only bans on this timeframe are "auto bans" by console.

And the waiting remains.

Today we celebrate our 3rd week of passivism in front of these issues.

When will we address the issue at its root?

Ywa when will you make a move? Apathy in this case is not an alternative to solve the issues.

A player yesterday told me a joke: "Ywa is just like a civil servant in public service: very slow to act. should he jump through a window, it will take him a couple of days to hit the ground".

Why invest so much effort in creating a community when we can't go the last mile to clean up the desk?

Cheers

[Damien]

I totally agree with you, but the servers are the property of the topcrew and they are the ones to make decisions. Making a server that completely listens solely on the vote of people will fail.