[POLL] What to do about bad maps?

[besweeet]

There have been some discussions recently about the vast amount of bad maps on both the mix and race servers (but mainly race). So, what should we do? Cast your vote in the poll for this thread. Keep in mind that whatever gets the most votes may still not be done at all, as it is up to those higher up than me to actually go through with it.

Description of Options

1. Remove ALL maps that have more dislikes than likes. This includes maps where they might just have a single dislike more than likes.
2. Remove maps ONLY if they have a lot more dislikes than likes. To create a baseline /standard limit, we can look into creating a ratio of likes:dislikes based on the number of times a map was played.
3. Deal with the bad maps. Like the poll said, life isn't fair, and neither are all game servers. If you come across a lot of maps that you don't like, then perhaps you can learn to play and deal with them like the other players instead of complaining in the chat or going AFK until the map is over.
4. Other. If you have a different idea, then say so below.

I personally voted for number 3. There are a number of maps that I've come across with more dislikes than likes that I actually liked, and I'd be disappointed if they ended up being deleted. And instead of crying and complaining about maps that are bad (which I admit that I have done every so often), I just deal with it and play through them with the others.

Edited January 21, 2017 by besweeet

[MoshPit]

Just because a map has bad ratings doesn't make it bad especially if its hard like destiny and some old school maps. the better question is what should we do with the 3 or 4 guys who constantly complain. People who if u removed every single map they don't like they would just find something else to complain about.

[wooozie]

delete thread.

[iammyself]

7 minutes ago, wooozie said:

delete thread.

This is, by far, the best reasoning I've ever heard.

Jokes aside, you do realise you have a goal you'd like to reach, right? Your goal is to, if I may speak in terms of the options given, remove all maps with more dislikes than likes. The reasoning behind this is that the dislikes are given for a reason, so who are we to judge ''our'' players. This is actually a very valid point, but with your responses in the two topics I've read you haven't really shown any cooperation. Now these two posts might not be representative, I don't even know you. But with your current behaviour, you're not really convincing me to pick your option. This only strengthens my will to pick one of the other options, even though I tend to be on your side (with some adjustments, I'll be honest) if I would reason with just logic. People however don't tend to use logic at all times, you've got to get them to your side by showing compassion.

That's the only tip you'll get from me, use it in your advantage

[MoshPit]

As mm i have Delete 156 maps for bad rating and Yoshi has started to do the same.

[RealJesus]

#2 seems like the most rational option. Why have a like/dislike system if it's useless? #1 seems drastic considering the margin and how likes and dislikes could change right before an admin decides to remove a map. Also considering the amount of idiots disliking maps only because they're not good enough to complete it, or trolls disliking maps because they hate the authors or are messing around or whatever, I think #2 is the only option that is actually a consensus between #1 and #3. 

[besweeet]

Just now, RealJesus said:

Also considering the amount of idiots disliking maps only because they're not good enough to complete it, or trolls disliking maps because they hate the authors or are messing around or whatever

That's why I don't think number 2 is really a good option either. I think of the like / dislike system like a song rating system for your music library. It's all YMMV territory. Someone rating a song 1 out of 5 stars doesn't mean that song sucks.

So y'all haters should grow a pair and deal with it.

[RealJesus]

1 minute ago, besweeet said:

That's why I don't think number 2 is really a good option either. I think of the like / dislike system like a song rating system for your music library. It's all YMMV territory. Someone rating a song 1 out of 5 stars doesn't mean that song sucks.

So y'all haters should grow a pair and deal with it.

True, but I mean, I guess it depends on what the standard ratio is. If there's like two times more dislikes than likes, it's a good indicator that the map is hated by a good portion of players? Especially if the total number of likes and dislikes is large. Say a map has 30 likes and 60 dislikes, wouldn't that be a good indicator nonetheless? At least in MIX, the players who like/dislike maps are usually regulars from what I could tell (correct me if I'm wrong). Opinions will always vary from person to person (I'd delete half the RTF maps and all DD maps if it were just me) but I wouldn't personally mind deleting clearly hated maps by the majority. 

[besweeet]

Maybe we can take a look at likes / dislikes and map age? So the older the map that has enough dislikes, the sooner it should be deleted. I don't know anymore. I'll just continue to enjoy both servers like I have for the past...6.5 years.

[MegasXLR]

This doesn't need to be discussed. If a map has X likes and 2X or 3X dislikes then it should be deleted immediately. Otherwise remove the fucking vote system, delete the map reports topic and say to everyone "Fuck you, you'll play what we say.".

[mr.reese]

Problems are:
1. There are maps which are classic maps what i think we should keep and have a lot of dislike.
2. Lot of maps have more dislike than like what maps are actually good but ppl dislike it because it's long etc... for example: NTS Marathon.
3. Lot of maps aren't actually good but people like it because they can like it with a button. (for example press L if you like it, and you just switch on the highlights and like the map.)
4. Lot of players only like a map because a player made it who they like. 

I think if the admins could make a team made of admins, mods or maybe some players which could decide about maps and we should trust in them they doing it in a good way.

Edited January 21, 2017 by mr.reese

[CaptainPhill]

Option number three and four. I would look to improve on the criteria that allows a map to be added.

Personally, the first priority of racing maps on the racing server should be the actual racing; that means good mapping that avoids bugs, good checkpoint placement along a racing line and good usage of cars.  I do enjoy maps that are difficult or maps that offer variety whilst still having the racing as a priority which is why I would not want to see those deleted. There is a few maps being added though that are there to show off scripting, new mapping objects (some which have terrible clipping issues), or to just be a general annoynance in terms of ridiculous checkpoint placement/usage of cars which is the problem for me.

Edited January 21, 2017 by CaptainPhill

[Guest F1MADKILLER]

2 hours ago, mr.reese said:

Problems are:
1. There are maps which are classic maps what i think we should keep and have a lot of dislike.
2. Lot of maps have more dislike than like what maps are actually good but ppl dislike it because it's long etc... for example: NTS Marathon.
3. Lot of maps aren't actually good but people like it because they can like it with a button. (for example press L if you like it, and you just switch on the highlights and like the map.)
4. Lot of players only like a map because a player made it who they like. 

I think if the admins could make a team made of admins, mods or maybe some players which could decide about maps and we should trust in them they doing it in a good way.

The like binded maps report them for fixing as it is against map rules now

[Cena]

In mix server, the map [CTF] Cookie, check the dislike and like. I've seen it since I got mm last year and I still didn't delete it and I won't. Ofc like/dislikes are important, but always exceptions can be made. Idk about race much, but in my opinion, maps should be more difficult and interesting to play, not a random player putting random cps all over the map and then the player decides to upload it and it get accepted. The author SHOULD make his map special to get accepted in race server. Thats just my opinion and how I see it, I check the web upload everyday and I mostly see race maps are getting accepted most of the times and I don't like that. I rarely see declined race map, but I'm pretty sure Bob can handle it. 

Thanks for reading but as I said before, I never play in race so idk much.

Edited January 21, 2017 by Cena
Forgot to mention Yoshi and Mosh beside Bob xD

[DriveHardGetDirty]

Delete all the 100 pachanga maps, after that no one will complain about bad maps, problem solved.

[BlueYoshi97]

4 hours ago, MegasXLR said:

Otherwise remove the fucking vote system,

You know what, that's not such a bad idea.

[Gametaff]

I've seen maps with x2 or even x3 dislikes rather likes and still haven't been deleted. Yes, there is a difference between hard maps and shit maps but if you guys have a vote system make it useful. What's the point of voting /like or /dislike if the map is not even going to be evaluated, also, you should check maps before upload them to the server, I've seen a shitload of maps with 40 likes/100 dislikes and srsly you gotta get rid of them...

[mr.reese]

maybe server needs a 1-10 rate system in the future and delete all the maps below 3.5 or something like this

[MegasXLR]

@BlueYoshi97 give me one good reason as to why you do not want to make the server better.

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It is not easy to just make a general decision about which maps to take and not to take though. Mainly because there is such a huge difference of taste, maps like I wanna find my Destiny, the majority don't like them, but for those that DO like them, it's one of their favourite maps of the server. So... who to listen to then, the majority of players, or some of the most regular visitors of the server who are worth keeping happy?

So me, @wooozie @Neconom and @Gametaff are not one of those? We're the most regular players on the race server for years, played more than you probably. And as @wooozie mentioned, you won't lose your beloved maps if you actually delete them from the server as they get moved to the 'resources-cache-trash' folder, NOT permanently deleted from the machine. I don't get it, what does it cost you to just try it and then restore ones which the majority of players want back. You want constructive criticism? OK.

Is it better to have the same 10 players playing the same shit maps over and over again or it's better to have 20+ players who enjoy their time racing around the streets of San Andreas? A lot of players I know never come here thanks to your (read: the server's) 'great' maps.

People who've never even been to the race server started making 'race' maps. Is it better to see how everybody fails and quit the server because the map's made only so that the author knows how to finish it/top it/ whatever or it's better to actually have a competition in racing to see who's the fastest, NOT who's the most lucky one to get past some random objects?

There's a place for maps like IWFMD 1 & 2, A Great Adventure, Benox maps and such of the kind. And it's NOT on a race server. That said it's not on Mix either, they belong to a seperate DeathMatch server because they don't fit neither of the two Mr.Green servers available at the moment (otherwise why do other servers have a special room dedicated to such maps?).

I've played good Pachanga maps, I've played good Yoshi maps as well. Nothing to say, maybe they're not my favourite but they were normal maps so I can't say anything about them. 

Yes, as someone said some people dislike a map just because they hate the author or because they fail on it and get sad, but if a map has X likes and twice or thrise more dislikes, that's not because of the reason I mentioned. Most players never even look at the mapinfo window, nor visit forums. They just go in-game without knowing who's in charge, who's map author and such things. 

There is a difference between a bad map and a hard map: Example of bad map is 'vEnom ft. Matrix - Sex Tape II' and example for hard map is 'promap'. Difference is that the latter keeps the main focus on racing itself although it includes planes, boats and bikes. Whereas the first one is purely a DM map which does not belong at the server, yet it's still there.

@sweetsandy I may rage over a map when I fail sometimes, I may call it shit and all that but I'd never report a map just because I failed it. As I told you before, I've failed a lot of maps until I actually got to be good on them without any sort of rage or such things (just like Hot Wheels 2 today). I failed? Oh well, I'll try again later. If a map is good you have the motivation to buy it and try to get better on it, it's quite the opposite for the reverse scenario.

If @Ywa has some free ports left he can open a DeathMatch only server so that people who really want to play that can go and have fun without ruining everybody else's fun. @Bierbuikje said: "But it will be almost always empty", it won't be meant to be full of players as the other two servers (Race & Mix). It'll be there just for people like @MoshPit, @Santiii733, @hulpje, @Gonzalezo and others wanting to get a top on those maps.

I hope you'll take this serious now as it's not just one guy's opinion, it's a lot of players'.

[MegasXLR]

2 hours ago, mr.reese said:

maybe server needs a 1-10 rate system in the future and delete all the maps below 3.5 or something like this

https://community.multitheftauto.com/index.php?p=resources&s=details&id=7103

[besweeet]

7 hours ago, MegasXLR said:

This doesn't need to be discussed. If a map has X likes and 2X or 3X dislikes then it should be deleted immediately. Otherwise remove the fucking vote system, delete the map reports topic and say to everyone "Fuck you, you'll play what we say.".

You're missing what people said earlier about there sometimes being dislikes made purely because they don't like the author, or the player just sucks at the game, or some other reason that doesn't mean the map should get deleted. The likes / dislikes mean very little so I do think that it should get deleted.

6 hours ago, mr.reese said:

I think if the admins could make a team made of admins, mods or maybe some players which could decide about maps and we should trust in them they doing it in a good way.

I'd be afraid that some admins could occasionally be biased.

3 hours ago, DriveHardGetDirty said:

Delete all the 100 pachanga maps, after that no one will complain about bad maps, problem solved.

You should be promoted to lead admin :D.

2 hours ago, mr.reese said:

maybe server needs a 1-10 rate system in the future and delete all the maps below 3.5 or something like this

I like this idea much more. But then we might have the same problem with likes / dislikes where people might just vote a map as 1.0 if they really hate it enough.

4 minutes ago, MegasXLR said:

Is it better to see how everybody fails and quit the server because the map's made only so that the author knows how to finish it/top it/ whatever or it's better to actually have a competition in racing to see who's the fastest, NOT who's the most lucky one to get past some random objects?

There's a place for maps like IWFMD 1 & 2, A Great Adventure, Benox maps and such of the kind. And it's NOT on a race server. That said it's not on Mix either, they belong to a seperate DeathMatch server because they don't fit neither of the two Mr.Green servers available at the moment (otherwise why do other servers have a special room dedicated to such maps?).

But that's the thing. The author isn't there to always play it. This is why maps have a lot of time for people to learn the map and complete it. Then when it's played again later, more people will know how to play through it. Sounds like life in general...

Why don't those maps belong on the race server? It's nice to have variety, no? Instead of the server being filled with based CP-to-CP maps around San Andreas, some of these very creative and technical maps can occasionally be played. It's not like you're playing them all the time... Either take a break, or actually learn how to play the map properly like many others. The maps you listed are race maps.

[MegasXLR]

@besweeet I don't expect you to understand as you're a mix player so all's forgiven :D. You like RTF (aka shit maps I mentioned) so ofcourse that you'll defend them. What I wrote is about the race server alone, nothing about mix so don't worry. Ofcourse it's good to have variety: Sprint, Circuit and GP; cars, bikes and planes.

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The maps you listed are race maps.

No they are not. Ask any real racer (some of them even have 'DM' in their description lol).

Quote

It's not like you're playing them all the time... 

Actually it is like that, literally all the time.

Quote

sometimes being dislikes made purely because they don't like the author

Yea, nobody has 150 haters...

Quote

people might just vote a map as 1.0 if they really hate it enough.

/rate 0 also works (:

Edited January 21, 2017 by MegasXLR

[besweeet]

18 minutes ago, MegasXLR said:

I don't expect you to understand as you're a mix player so all's forgiven :D. You like RTF (aka shit maps I mentioned) so ofcourse that you'll defend them. What I wrote is about the race server alone, nothing about mix so don't worry. Ofcourse it's good to have variety: Sprint, Circuit and GP; cars, bikes and planes.

No they are not. Ask any real racer (some of them even have 'DM' in their description lol).

Actually it is like that, literally all the time.

Yea, nobody has 150 haters...

I've been here for almost 7 years and spent the majority of the time on race. Plus, I've been playing race 90% of the time recently. I have come across maps that I don't like at all but I play through them anyway to see how I can do.

I only like a few RTF maps. The rest are too long, and I don't care for long maps in general.

How aren't they race maps? You can have multiple people racing for the finish...

Then... Maybe it's best to find a server that has only the maps that you like? It's like using a cell phone provider that provides you with no service everywhere you go... Go find someone that better suits your needs.

Not only that they don't like the author, but people might immediately dislike a map that they die once at (among other examples).

[DriveHardGetDirty]

How to solve this problem:

 

[besweeet]

1 minute ago, DriveHardGetDirty said:

How to solve this problem:

 

If you can win at IWFMD2, you can win at any map .