Osama Bin Laden is dead

[TinyDancer]

Regardless, he's done more wrong that good. Therefore, the death should be celebrated .

Huh? Why? I disagree with you but I want to understand your position more. Was the eyeroll smiley making fun of your own position or was it asserting the obviousness of it?

I disagree with the statement on a very basic level in that I don't think killing, even if its justified (like in self defense or what have you) should be celebrated. It seems kind of perverse. Like, other than fulfilling some sense of revenge (which you can definitely make arguments for being a legitimate need) how is the world any better off?

Now let me qualify this statement by saying that I'm not exactly torn that he's dead haha. And I don't even think his death was wrongful - he went down firing. But I guess my point is that celebrating the intentional death of a human being, however pitiful, only contributes to instability at large. It says that we can only solve problems arising from violence with similar acts of violence, which basically just means we're killing each other forever.

But moreover, when should a death be celebrated? How do you make that judgement? I mean, you posit one metric - doing more wrong than good, but that seems problematic. It begs the question - how do we judge "wrong" and "good". For Osama, that seems pretty obvious to us. But in other cases, people have done both good and bad, but its really not clear how we should regard their legacy.

Overall, I guess it just seems a little morbid to me to celebrate the idea that people we successfully killed people. It just seems that its never a goal that ends up in happiness...

If our posts are gonna clog this up too much we can take it to PMs or something but I do like having large, open discussions.

[Hundred2]

FYI. It has been confirmed that it was Bin Laden shot dead.

http://gizmodo.com/#...d-sisters-brain

Hah, you think the CIA couldnt forge that?

He's alive.

He's hiding on the moon i tell ya.

[besweeet]

I thought that the smiley was a regular one, but I didn't see it animate until it was too late.

Anyway, I honestly don't see anything wrong with celebrating the death of somebody who has caused much torment and grieving for people all over the world. He's one less terrorist to worry about, and that right there should be enough reason to start celebrating. Didn't people celebrate Hitler's death? Another example... If a murderer killed your mom, and he was then put to death, wouldn't you celebrate a bit? I sure as hell would. The world is better without these sorts of people. Yes, problems will continue to persist, but having this terrorist, who has caused many problems, dead, means a lot to a lot of people around the world, including those who have lost loved ones because of his terrorist attacks.

LONG LIVE HIS DEATH

EDIT: But that's assuming he's actually dead. I'm still somewhat skeptic. I haven't seen any real concrete proof of his death. A video or a lot of professional photographs would be great. Could potentially be a political stunt by Obama to increase his ratings, thus increasing his chances of a second presidency (it's time for somebody else).

Edited May 2, 2011 by besweeet

[BinSlayer]

how do we judge wrong and good? wtf are these shitass rhetorical questions

if u start killing thousands of ppl you're bad, if you help an old lady cross the road you're good . It's that simple..

that osama dude was the highest threat to mankind, i'm not saying we should "celebrate" this as in going out and getting drunk on champagne and say HOORAY OSAMA IS DEAD, FUCK YES. But at least you CAN sleep better at night if you live in the countries that were affected by this war. I'm totally objective here, cause' I've always slept well at night.

[Nobana]

FYI. It has been confirmed that it was Bin Laden shot dead.

http://gizmodo.com/#...d-sisters-brain

Hah, you think the CIA couldnt forge that?

He's alive.

He's hiding on the moon i tell ya.

With the space nazis.

E: Also, shitstorm.

Edited May 2, 2011 by Nobana

[Tom Klijbroek]

Yeah but if Osama's throwing a press conference tonight showing he's alive Obama can pack his bags. I guess he's not taking that chance.

[terminator]

[Balmung]

Can you not post anything constructive anywhere?

[terminator]

Can you not post anything constructive anywhere?

My opinion doesn't matter (no one gives a fuck really every one's entitled to their own, and quite honestly i don't care about anyone's)

There are certain individuals in this thread who i'd describe as utterly naive ''moralfags''

Apart from that i just sit back and have a laugh over this...

Edited May 2, 2011 by terminator

[TinyDancer]

how do we judge wrong and good? wtf are these shitass rhetorical questions

if u start killing thousands of ppl you're bad, if you help an old lady cross the road you're good . It's that simple..

that osama dude was the highest threat to mankind, i'm not saying we should "celebrate" this as in going out and getting drunk on champagne and say HOORAY OSAMA IS DEAD, FUCK YES. But at least you CAN sleep better at night if you live in the countries that were affected by this war. I'm totally objective here, cause' I've always slept well at night.

okay so you ignored the fact that I said osama's clearly a bad person but in many other more ambiguous cases that doesn't function as a good metric, thus proving exactly what i said that it only really makes sense in extreme cases. if you think good/bad is a clear and simple dichotomy then you aren't thinking critically.

I actually think the only proper way to celebrate his death is to get wasted and scream USA and such - because the only way his death is good is from a sense of revenge, which i'm saying can be arguably good, but I think is still weird. As much as we'd like to think, Osama isn't the reason for wars. He might be the pretense, but not the reason. In fact, I don't think he was even close to a threat - he was just a puppet. He was one terrorist who simply provided a face for a group of highly splintered terrorist cells which he funded thru daddies money. Terrorism won't go down because he's dead. The people in those countries were more affected by the US dropping bombs and shit all over the place than by terrorism. And even that weren't true, his death doesn't stop the incredible instability created by both wars and terrorism.

IMO we shouldn't celebrate the deaths of people, but feel a sense of relief about the problems that may end when they're apprehended/dead. Yes, that can include happiness, but the life of that person was never important - its what they did. I would rather celebrate the ending of the slaughter of millions of jews than the death of the person who caused it. But i don't think i would celebrate much at all - especially in the case of my mom's hypothetical death. If the person died, I would I guess maybe feel relief that they wouldn't kill another person (depends on the circumstances tho) but i would more just be emotionally fucked because my mom's gone, nothings gonna bring her back, some family just lost a member who may have done awful things but was still a human, and the world is overall a shitter place. (also i think the death penalty has a bunch of other problems but thats beside the point)

Anyway, I'd like to reiterate that Osama's a piece of shit and i really have no sympathy for him. But celebrating the death still seems a bit morbid to me - and focused on the wrong issue.

On the 'is he dead' note - I don't think obama would risk pulling something that stupid because that just sets bin laden up for the perfect opportunity to undermine the US, obama, and like everything. I'm gonna go ahead here and say he's dead. Also I know I'm writing really long walls of text I'll try to cut down on that and I might not even be back here for a bit because I'm ignoring too much school work haha.

EDIT: terminator i'd assume ur referring to me as a 'moralfag'?

edit2: im not trying to turn this into a shitstorm by any means. i just like talking about stuff i guess (or maybe just hearing myself talk haha)

Edited May 2, 2011 by TinyDancer

[besweeet]

// begin useless post

I can post a pic of a shitstorm if anybody wants .

// end useless post

@TinyDancer: While I understand your point of view in terms of celebrating somebody's death, I just disagree. I'm not sure if my points were convincing or not.

[Clavus]

So they caught Osama before Duke Nukem Forever is released. Hehe.

[Tom Klijbroek]

Obama watching video feed from the operation.. great pic imo

[Deluvas]

TinyDancer is right. Most Americans will sleep well at night, just because he is dead, however they probably don't know what's coming for them ... <Buhuhuhu!>

[TinyDancer]

Obama watching video feed from the operation.. great pic imo

ahaha. on the video broadcast i really wanted him to walk up with a straight face, pause, go "WOOOOOOOO FUCK YEA", fist pump, turn around and leave. maybe like break a chair or something on the way out.

besweet - fair enough. i think i may have overstated my position a bit. i usually don't like using short quotes to support arguments, but i think my position could be summarized as: "I've never wished a man dead, but I have read some obituaries with great pleasure." -Mark Twain. Although I wish there was a better way, i'm not particularly broken up about him being gone I guess what I feel more strongly about is the way america tends to behave abroad, but that's for another time.

ultimately, the world will go on and we have plenty of other things to deal with, too. such is life.

[Tom Klijbroek]

It kind of looks like that scene from Red Alert 2 when Yuri's mindcontrolling them, I'm glad Obama resisted it. Hillary seems a bit scared though.

[Navo]

FYI. It has been confirmed that it was Bin Laden shot dead.

http://gizmodo.com/#...d-sisters-brain

Hah, you think the CIA couldnt forge that?

He's alive.

CIA and US government are big and evil yadayada and everything they say are lies except if it confirms my worldview.

(With this I mean that I think your opinion is pathetic)

[Hundred2]

FYI. It has been confirmed that it was Bin Laden shot dead.

http://gizmodo.com/#...d-sisters-brain

Hah, you think the CIA couldnt forge that?

He's alive.

CIA and US government are big and evil yadayada and everything they say are lies except if it confirms my worldview.

(With this I mean that I think your opinion is pathetic)

Maybe he meant it as a joke.

[Navo]

FYI. It has been confirmed that it was Bin Laden shot dead.

http://gizmodo.com/#...d-sisters-brain

Hah, you think the CIA couldnt forge that?

He's alive.

CIA and US government are big and evil yadayada and everything they say are lies except if it confirms my worldview.

(With this I mean that I think your opinion is pathetic)

Maybe he meant it as a joke.

Judging from the rest of his posts and his general attitude it isn't.

[Juggernaut]

In all seriousness though, something doesn't seem right about this whole thing. That is just how I feel and I'm sure a lot of other people feel this way. If he is dead it is a good thing, but it is also a bad thing because he has become a martyr. If this is truly what happened I am very glad he is gone, but maybe it should have been handled quietly. Since it was handled this way I see a shit storm coming worse than things have been.

[TinyDancer]

In all seriousness though, something doesn't seem right about this whole thing. That is just how I feel and I'm sure a lot of other people feel this way. If he is dead it is a good thing, but it is also a bad thing because he has become a martyr. If this is truly what happened I am very glad he is gone, but maybe it should have been handled quietly. Since it was handled this way I see a shit storm coming worse than things have been.

I love that gif. I agree that things are weird about this whole thing, just cause even if the whole thing is exactly as the administration says, then we really just don't know how ppl are going to react. I think if the administration is disguising the truth about something, its probably in how the operation was carried out, and not the result. Usually they try to keep executive ordered assassinations secret haha. But I don't think that its really going to make him a martyr - at least not to anyone who didn't already support him 100%. I think most ppl had already decided their stances on the issue. Just because I prefer transparency, I'm glad they're open about it (tho assassinations ordered by a government always feel a little weird to me).

Interesting story: There is one captured terrorist who claimed that his cell had a nuke in europe that they would detonate if OBL was ever captured or killed. Now this guy was proved to be not credible on many issues, and liked to take claim for things that either never happened or didn't do. However, it's still a possibility. But again, I think that for the people high up that are actually organizing terrorism and putting it into effect, it really doesn't change much. He was just a face for terrorism, and he was on his way out anyway. Eh, hard to say. Not much we can do but wait and see :/

[BouweV]

First of all, When I first heard this news (on IRC this morning)..

My reply was: "Didn't they hang him already?"

That was me confusing Osama with Hussein.

With this I want to mention Osama wasn't really 'alive' anymore anyways,. if they'd have left him alone in his ultra secured villa he would've died from elderly and no-one would've known.

The only thing they reached with this action is some hate from the last followers of Osama, which weren't so much anymore.

On TV they interviewed some people in Libya and none of them cared about Osama, only about Kadhafi..

also @ TinyDancer: Your post are so much text

[TinyDancer]

yea my b. to be fair i have an awful attention span and probably couldn't read my own posts, but when i start writing about politics or philosophy or things i kinda know about i black out and wake up like 5 paragraphs later.

Edited May 3, 2011 by TinyDancer

[BlueYoshi97]

yea my b. to be fair i have an awful attention span and probably couldn't read my own posts, but when i start writing about politics or philosophy or things i kinda know about i black out and wake up like 5 paragraphs later.

I enjoy reading your long posts. Others are just so lazy!

Ontopic:

Osama Bin Laden is dead. So what? Forget about him, he doesn't deserve to have his name remembered, even though it's in a negative way.

[Navo]

yea my b. to be fair i have an awful attention span and probably couldn't read my own posts, but when i start writing about politics or philosophy or things i kinda know about i black out and wake up like 5 paragraphs later.

I enjoy reading your long posts. Others are just so lazy!

Ontopic:

Osama Bin Laden is dead. So what? Forget about him, he doesn't deserve to have his name remembered, even though it's in a negative way.

So we shouldn't remember Hitler and forget about the dangers of mass manipulation?