Norway

[Clavus]

Since the flow of new information seems to be settling down I think it's time to get a little discussion going about the Norway terrorist acts. I find this relevant because they hit pretty close home. Norway is not far from most of us and even home to some. Plus the victims were almost all from our age groups.

First a recap, directly from Wikipedia:

The 2011 Norway attacks were a pair of terrorist attacks against the civilian population, the government and a political summer camp in Norway on Friday, 22 July 2011. The first was a bomb explosion in Regjeringskvartalet, the executive government quarter of Oslo, at 15:22 (CEST), outside the office of Prime Minister Jens Stoltenberg and other government buildings. The explosion killed eight people and wounded several others. The second attack occurred less than two hours later at a youth camp organized by the youth organization (AUF) of the Norwegian Labour Party (AP) on the island of Utøya in Tyrifjorden, Buskerud. A gunman disguised as a policeman opened fire at the campers, killing 68 attendees, including personal friends of Prime Minister Jens Stoltenberg and the stepbrother of Norway's crown princess Mette-Marit, in a backlash against the alleged islamification of Europe.

The Norwegian Police Service arrested Anders Behring Breivik, a 32-year-old Norwegian man, for the mass shootings in Utøya and subsequently charged him with both attacks.

The European Union, NATO and several countries around the world expressed their support for Norway and condemned the attacks.

Personally I always try to get an understanding of the psychology of people who commit such acts. In this case I found it quite depressing. Breivik is a rather terrifying fellow. Not socially, but what he represents. Breivik wrote a 1500 page book expressing his views and ideas. He got himself arrested, instead of committing suicide like most attackers do in that situation. His purpose right now seems to be to spread his ideals now that the world's attention is on him. Funny thing how we want to know what is going on in this guy's head while this is exactly what he wants.

Another thing was his ability to stay out of sight. He was never directly affiliated with right wing groups, and seldom expressed his extremist views in public. He seemed to have kept his ultimate plans to himself (although right now it's unsure whether he had help). This is, what I think, another side effect of the internet. People can develop ideas and plans based on a huge load of free information that is at their disposal. Breivik is someone who abused that while never sharing much information himself.

On a lighter note, he was also a WoW and MW2 player, the latter which he called "the best military simulator available". That statement would've been funny at any other moment.

I hope they lock him up forever, and that his actions will only strengthen the things that he tried to damage. My condolences to all the families and victims, who will probably never be the same.

If you have anything to add, do post.

[BlueYoshi97]

There is no logic to be found in the mind of someone who even thinks about killing people. I congratulate you that you managed to find an understanding of his psychology, my theory is just that religion and politics are one of the highest points of human stupidity.

Count countries with dictatorships, count that guy on the Island who chooses another woman every year while the people on that island starve, count Cuba, count China, count Korea. And meanwhile, while it's clear that all those countries are fucked up, the people that DO live in good countries, like The Netherlands, don't give a shit about it, meaning us are fucked up too.

And then there is religion. Just because humans have the weakness they need to have everything explained so they believe in something that doesn't exist that's alright. But humans have another weakness and that is they are all know-it-alls so they use their next weakness, violence, to show everyone that they know the best.

Sadly the world has always been like this and will always stay like this and will definitely end like this.

EDIT: They should have also made sure they deleted that damn video but now it's too late, it can never get off the internet.

DOUBLE EDIT: Don't destroy the things you hate, but go after the things you love. I just thought of that line but that's what I mean.

Edited July 25, 2011 by BlueYoshi97

[Clavus]

I tend to have a slightly less pessimistic view of the world. Human society is far from ideal but events like these teach a lot about it. One major thing we need to work towards is mutual understanding. Once that is achieved, discriminatory hatred will be limited.

[EmRA]

Where is Notte?

[Clavus]

Where is Notte?

Last logged in: 68 days ago.

Very long holiday?

[VMR]

Where is Notte?

He's fine.

[Versnellingspook]

I think this man was just sick in his head, look at the smile on his face while he's in the police van :/

Also I've read some parts of his manifesto, and he's just a sick man full of himself and fully convinced that what he's doing is the right thing.

@BY97; Have some faith, not all people are like that.

the people that DO live in good countries, like The Netherlands, don't give a shit about it, meaning us are fucked up too.

The Netherlands has the highest rate of giving to charity. What else can we do to help victims of starvation.

And are you doing anything about it?

[BouweV]

I just heard on the radio the FBI had been informed about Anders buying some chemical products from a company which was being watched by the FBI, but because it was a legal purchase they ignored it.

He will get max 21 years in prison, because that's the max limit in Norway.(Unless they can stack the things he's done so it is like 93x21 years(VMR can explain?))

Also, wars are there because of religion or politics. I still don't understand why we still have both.

the people that DO live in good countries, like The Netherlands, don't give a shit about it, meaning us are fucked up too.

I am one of those who doesn't give a shit to be honest, of course I go to charity events sometimes and spend money, but I never give money without receiving something back :#

(and I give 7€ monthly to proefdiervrij)

+ I am a poor student.

Anders Behring Breivik is quite sick in his head if you ask me, shooting people just like that as if it's a game..

Too bad there are people like him around, and always will be.

I know this post is shit, but I am tired and going to bed now after work.

[Juggernaut]

Killing is not right under any circumstance, but there are times when it is necessary and killing this man that took so many lives is necessary. You may say that he should suffer the rest of his life in a prison, or that maybe he can be rehabilitated, but what he took away can't be brought back. What he took from all those people should be taken from him. The people that died that day should be the ones that are being talked about not the scum that killed them. He did it, they know for a fact that he did it. So, get rid of him. Do we need to dwell on him? I think not.

Edit: Please don't take my post as saying for you all not to talk about it. Please feel free and do discuss.

Edited July 26, 2011 by Juggernaut

[Clavus]

Also, wars are there because of religion or politics. I still don't understand why we still have both.

The first one is just used as an excuse, the second one is because politics are what makes the world go around. The current political climate has plenty of flaws, but they define the image of a nation, and provide a link to others.

[Sk@tEfigHteR]

I watch TV all the time and see people get convicted for life because they killed another person.

Why would a maniac that killed so many be convicted for 21 years maximum?

The world doesn't need people like that, And it happens all the time where I see people who did much worse than others barely get punished.

On the internet a day ago I saw a picture regarding a homeless man stealing 100$ and returning the money right after but got 15 years in jail

And right under him a picture of a politician who is serving 2 months because he did a fraud where he gained millions of dollars.

It's just unfair how the worst of our society get off so easy.

Edit: Forgot to tell the homeless mans time in jail*

Edited July 26, 2011 by Sk@tEfigHteR

[Clavus]

Someone on another forum was on Utøya at the time and wrote down his experience:

http://forum.thatfatatheist.com/topic/8917891/1/

[VMR]

The highest jail sentence is 21 years, but they can hold him for as long as they need if he is considered a threat of if it's dangerous for him to go outside.

[TechnoNegro]

Well, i bet that some1 will kill him in prison.

killing 100 ppl, most of em kids, he wont last 21 years.

[Clavus]

Well, i bet that some1 will kill him in prison.

killing 100 ppl, most of em kids, he wont last 21 years.

I don't think Scandinavian prisons are that dangerous.

[Navo]

What puzzles me is that someone who appears to be quite intelligent can think that killing 68 youngsters will help him achieve his political goal.

Edited July 26, 2011 by Navo

[Ywa]

What puzzles me is that someone who appears to be quite intelligent can think that killing 68 youngsters will help him achieve his political goal.

Since when are extremists intelligent? The problem with extremists is that they can't think properly and see everything "zwart-op-wit".

[Navo]

What puzzles me is that someone who appears to be quite intelligent can think that killing 68 youngsters will help him achieve his political goal.

Since when are extremists intelligent? The problem with extremists is that they can't think properly and see everything "zwart-op-wit".

My claim that he appears to be intelligent is based on his manifest. If you read parts of the manifest, it becomes clear he was intelligent, but had a severely twisted worldview.

[Ywa]

What puzzles me is that someone who appears to be quite intelligent can think that killing 68 youngsters will help him achieve his political goal.

Since when are extremists intelligent? The problem with extremists is that they can't think properly and see everything "zwart-op-wit".

My claim that he appears to be intelligent is based on his manifest. If you read parts of the manifest, it becomes clear he was intelligent, but had a severely twisted worldview.

True

[Versnellingspook]

Intelligent =/= sane in the head.

And he said himself that half of his manifesto was not written by him.

[VMR]

Intelligent =/= sane in the head.

And he said himself that half of his manifesto was not written by him.

A big part of his manifesto is written by one the earlier right-wing extremists that inspired him a lot. I don't remember his name, but it shouldn't be hard to find his name if you look for it.

He is very intelligent, but he is also a psychopath (he has no feeling of empathy).

His goal was never to kill as many as possible, the terror attack was just to stir up the media as much as possible and to bring attention to his manifesto. And he did it perfectly. People all over the whole world are reading it now. He is using the media to spread propaganda, his attacks were just to get the medias attention.

Edited July 26, 2011 by VMR

[BlueYoshi97]

@BY97; Have some faith, not all people are like that.

the people that DO live in good countries, like The Netherlands, don't give a shit about it, meaning us are fucked up too.

The Netherlands has the highest rate of giving to charity. What else can we do to help victims of starvation.

And are you doing anything about it?

Versnellingspook, yes, but I am aware that charity doesn't solve our problems. I do believe school books should be changed (economie :X), instead of teaching you how to earn a lot of money, it should teach you to use the money to share, and not only buy expensive crap for yourself. But you are completely right. That's all you and me can do on our own.

I'm more talking about the dictatorships and religion-wars. We can't stop that with money. But still, while I'm typing this, and while you are reading this and shaking your head in disbelief and thinking that I must be an idiot and I should get to the point now (but I still love YOU), there are people being killed by corrupted governments. And I just feel so guilty, that I'm living in a wealthy country (I think I'm one of the poorest of this community but I still feel very rich). And I just want people to help those countries.

I'm a stupid kid. I don't know shit about the world. I don't know jack about politics and armies. All I want to understand is why we can't free all the people in the world? (Except violence)

But yeah, forget about it, because it's probably offtopic again...

[terminator]

Versnellingspook, yes, but I am aware that charity doesn't solve our problems. I do believe school books should be changed (economie :X), instead of teaching you how to earn a lot of money, it should teach you to use the money to share, and not only buy expensive crap for yourself.

LOL share my money??? fuck off let faggots work for it themselves, ''typical poor mans view i don't have any why don't the ones with money just share some..''

I'm more talking about the dictatorships and religion-wars. We can't stop that with money.

ERHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH wrong Money buy's you armies,weapons, people and allies.

But still, while I'm typing this, and while you are reading this and shaking your head in disbelief and thinking that I must be an idiot

Yes i really think you are.

And I just feel so guilty, that I'm living in a wealthy country.

What the fuck, enjoy it that's what they would do too and the reason they come here.... if you seriously feel guilty living here you should move to a shithole..

And I just want people to help those countries.

Can't save everybody, and we shouldn't even try to..

Edited July 26, 2011 by terminator

[BlueYoshi97]

Sigh..

[Navo]

Versnellingspook, yes, but I am aware that charity doesn't solve our problems. I do believe school books should be changed (economie :X), instead of teaching you how to earn a lot of money, it should teach you to use the money to share, and not only buy expensive crap for yourself.

LOL share my money??? fuck off let faggots work for it themselves, ''typical poor mans view i don't have any why don't the ones with money just share some..''

I'm more talking about the dictatorships and religion-wars. We can't stop that with money.

ERHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH wrong Money buy's you armies,weapons, people and allies.

But still, while I'm typing this, and while you are reading this and shaking your head in disbelief and thinking that I must be an idiot

Yes i really think you are.

And I just feel so guilty, that I'm living in a wealthy country.

What the fuck, enjoy it that's what they would do too and the reason they come here.... if you seriously feel guilty living here you should move to a shithole..

And I just want people to help those countries.

Can't save everybody, and we shouldn't even try to..

(still lives at his parents and has never had a job)